AIBU to call for VAT to be charged on childrens books?

[ZirihePevzig]

VAT is charged on things that are luxuries, so that wealthier people who can afford the extra luxuries of life pay more into the government's income for running the country than those who are just living with the bare essentials and making ends meet without luxuries. Therefore there is no VAT on basic food stuff, but more luxury foods like icecream, confectionary and crisps have VAT added, and food that is sold for eat-in in restaurants or sold heated (there was a whole thing about Greggs Pasties not being VATable if they are still hot straight from the oven, but would be VATable if reheated). In general, VAT is a good thing because wealthy people with a clever accountant can fiddle things to hide income and get away with paying less income tax than they should, but if you are leading a luxurious lifestyle you are going to pay the VAT on it.

Things that are considered to be generally "A Good Thing" don't get VAT added, such as sporting activities and physical education, education and training, and medical treatments - VAT is effectively a "brake" on spending on non-essentials and its seen as inappropriate to tax things like this that it's not a bad thing to spend money on. Books come under this category and so are zero-rated.

However, in real life, books really are a luxury - even without VAT a book is generally around £10 (sometimes it might be as low as £7) and you could feed a family for at least a day on that. Less wealthy families are going to use libraries and get access to books for free, so the main beneficiaries of the VAT exemption on books is wealthy families who can afford to throw away £10 on something they could access for free at the library. Some affluent households may own thousands of books, and that's a huge amount of luxury goods that could have been taxed. You won't find that kind of book collection in households struggling at close to poverty levels.

OK I admit it, I am not actually in favour of charging VAT on books, but the exact same argument - that only wealthier people can afford it - is used as justification for the suggestion that education should no longer be in the list of things that are VAT exempt. If this is the case and education should no longer be VAT free then books are in the same category.

So if you are voting that IABU to call for VAT on books then you should also be supporting non-profit-making schools - ones that are providing education as a service, not as a business, in regions where the state offering is inadequate - to be able to charge their fees at cost-price without adding VAT, even though not everyone can afford that.

So YANBU = yes books and education are only accessible to poor people in their "free" forms from public libraries and state schools, so anyone who can afford the extra money to access a better version privately should pay VAT on that luxury

YABU = books and education are ultimately good for society and not appropriate to be taxed, even though the available budget for spending on them will be unfeasible for many people.

Libraries in many places are limited in either what they have to lend, or their hours, and this is only likely to increase as it is a discretionary expenditure for local authorities.

Books may be less important that food, a roof over your head, and adequate clothes, but I would never see them as a luxury.

You can buy childrens books for a pound in discount shops. Admittedly unaffordable for some still, but also a pocket money item for many.

Libraries are closed or turned into jobcentres absolutely punish the poor for not having access to services that no longer exist

I think both education and books should be VAT free.

My local library has about 4 board books for kids that's it. So most people buy them 5 for £5 type thing in the works etc. I'm not sure charging VAT on kids books will achieve anything other than pushing their accessibility away from even more children.

That's true, but you can also buy sweets for 10p in the same kinds of shops and that's 8p for the sweet and 2p of VAT because confectionary is VATable - the principle isn't about how much they cost but are they categorised as something that the tax system should be putting a brake on spending for, or something that the tax system should recognise as good.

Books are available for less than £7. The more that people with money buy, the more they have to donate. I probably buy quite a lot of books for my children but I’ll only keep the ones with sentimental value, most will be passed on.

So if you are voting that IABU to call for VAT on books then you should also be supporting non-profit-making schools

I voted YABU because your long-winded argument is fatuous. Kids books do not cost the same as going to Eton.

I think it would be reasonable to exempt school fees from vat to the equivalent level of per pupil state school funding - that being the amount the government consider appropriate to provide an education

Books are not a luxury item though and should never be thought of that way.

Vat legislation is incredibly complex and while the broad principle is luxury items are vatable and essential items are not, it is much more nuanced and complex than that.

But I’m a working parent and our library is only open during the week? The wealthy will still be able to afford books but lower / middle classes will be the losers (again)

Books should never be seen as a luxury. YABU.

Do you send your children to a private school and this is your way of arguing against any taxation on them?

I'm also against VAT on children's books and on education but I don't think your argument (that anyone who opposes VAT on books should also oppose it on education) works at all. Private education (costing hundreds of thousands of pounds) is not comparable to a book (costing a tenner).

YABU, books are not a luxury

What is this nonsense?

Wow that’s a lot of words to wade through for the nub of your argument. Maybe YANBU but your style & comparison has annoyed me so I’m voting YABU regardless. Please don’t write a book.

OP, reading is a fundamental part of education and adding 20% to the cost would be a disaster.

Libraries in smaller towns are closing and the availability of books has never been more important.

I can afford to buy my DS books, but all of them are then passed on to his old primary school, for the benefit of all. Adding 20% to the cost would reduce the number of books for everyone.

ones that are providing education as a service, not as a business, in regions where the state offering is inadequate
I think the VAT charged should go towards making the state offering better, personally.
a good education for all is something to strive for. Your version Just shuts the poorest even further out.

Of course they don't, but the 10p sweet from Lidl, the 80p bar of chocolate from the snack machine, the £50 luxury truffle assortment from Hotel Chocolat and the hand-crafted chocolate sculpture from the artisan sugarcrafter for your ballroom centrpiece that you pay £5000 for are all charged VAT at the same 20% rate because they are all confectionary.

The £1 board book, the £4.50 Harry Potter paperback, the £17 Hardback from the flavour-of-the-month bestselling author, the hundreds of pounds for a serious reference book, are all the same category as each other, and a subset of the ultimate good of advancing education and knowledge. It's a continuum, with affordability points for every household budget.

Quite

Well, that would maybe be fine if so many libraries hadn't been closed or opening times reduced. And a children's book does not cost £10! I think you can get 5 for £10 in the Works.

I don't get the argument about fee paying schools. It's hardly the same thing. I'm on a low income and can afford to buy books sometimes, I could not ever afford a private school! Are your children at fee paying schools?

Some children go to school never having held a book. An action that could make that worse is not a good thing, atall!

If your argument is that something should only be zero rated if absolutely everyone can afford to pay for it then I doubt you would be left with much on the list.

Also, the average price of a child's book is not £10. I don't think I've spent that much on a single book for my 4 year old. Books are cheaper than most toys.

Not every parent can afford books but most can. The same cannot be said for private school.

Is this a long winded complaint about the possibility of VAT being added to private school fees?

I don’t think VAT should be levied on children’s books but choosing private schooling is a luxury and I have no objection to VAT being levied on private school fees.

I can’t get behind any argument that would make books less accessible to any child, regardless of family income. Books and reading open up a whole new world of opportunities. I’ve always said I’d like money donated to Booktrust when I die.