Do these fathers actually want children?

[Daftasyoulike]

I see a lot of posts on MN about absent Fathers who don't pay maintenance, don't make any effort to see their children, etc. Is it unreasonable to ask whether these men ever actually wanted kids in the first place, or was it a case of accidental pregnancies, which were allowed to continue in the hope that 'he will come around to the idea once the baby arrives', and then when the relationship breaks up, you find that he never really cared about having the kids in the first place, so doesn't feel he should contribute emotionally or financially to the raising of his children?

I really cannot believe what a pile of ignorant, ridiculous, misogynistic, vile, irrational, spiteful, unintelligent nonsense I've just read.

I agree with this. I think if a women chooses to be a single parent (as in accidental pregnancy and the father doesn't want it), then they shouldn't be forced to pay maintenance. I know so many women in this situation who go ahead in this situation and then are surprised when the relationship doesn't work out.

Agree with this. Selecting a reluctant, disinterested father for one's offspring is reprehensible. We are the ones who control this; it's highly disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

But this goes for the female too surely?

Well, there is such a thing as dysfunction passed from generation to generation. Denying that is ridiculous.

Well, there is such a thing as dysfunction passed from generation to generation. Denying that is ridiculous.

Great, just insult people who've survived abusive childhoods, many of whom become the most committed and gentle, loving, warm parents you could possibly have for exactly that reason: that they would give anything to make sure their children are happy and secure.

But you carry on with your victim blaming.

Ironic that when the tragic cases of neglected and abused children make the news everybody says how sad it is and how they'd have loved that child and taken them in. But those who do survive such childhoods are then stigmatised throughout life with hateful comments like you've just made even if they become excellent, kind parents who provide for their children financially and give them a wonderful childhood full of love.

As I said, what absolutely vile posts from so many posters on this thread.

Why are you pretending that only birth mums can give up a child for adoption? When a child is relinquished both parents must agree.

A lot of men like the idea of children but not the reality. They also seem to like the idea of a healthy NT child who requires no effort from them but is always available to be “on show” to others.

People always get so defensive on these threads so anything that questions the woman is attacked 🤷‍♀️

Regardless, there are so many women making shit choices, especially on MN. There has been a number of posts where women are having unprotected sex with men they barely know. The unprotected aspect is the problem btw, not the sex. Why can't we question shit choices? It's always an 'accident' because deep down they know the choice they selfishly made was pretty stupid.
Then there are those who seem to think a baby is required for each new relationship. Or try and cement a relationship by having a baby.

Babies with virtual strangers or men who they know are pretty crap. I do believe there are always signs. No one wants to admit that though when it all goes south.

I think woman can be held accountable for having babies with shit men without excusing the men at all. I have zero sympathy for them. Any man who does not want a baby can protect himself. If they choose not to, it's on them 🤷‍♀️

As a parent to 3 sons and 1 daughter, I was always very concerned about their contraceptive methods, as if they got a girl pregnant they would have little influence on the outcome. If the girl decided to proceed with the pregnancy (totally her right), my son would be a father, paying maintenance for 18 years. Young men & women have one night stands that can result in a pregnancy, with zero emotional connection between the 2, how can they be expected to want a relationship/contact with the unwanted child? Of course some men will feel obliged, then fall in love with the child, but others will remain detached, and I don't think this type of father (sperm donor) should be admonished.

People always get so defensive on these threads so anything that questions the woman is attacked 🤷‍♀️

You're surprised people are "defensive" given the vile and insulting generalisations blaming women for men's behaviour?

For most of the family breakdowns among my friends, the general theme seems to be couple get married, couple equally enthusiastic to have a family.

But while the woman expected equal parenting, careers etc, the man assumed that 'giving his wife a baby' meant he got a free house keeper, domestic drudge and replacement for his mother, for life, who also did all the parenting while he carried on his bachelor life style, read the paper, played golf.

It all fell apart when the wife went back to work after maternity leave and expected the husband to step up. He refused to help because 'he works', resentment grew and then he had an affair.

I think maybe it's my age group - late 50s - the first generation of women who genuinely could be equal in terms of finances, and the first generation of men expected to be equal in terms of domestic chores as well as working hours. I guess it was a nasty shock for many men. 🙄

But that assumes things have improved with later and better educated generations of men, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

Maybe because you are a misandrist

You're surprised people are "defensive" given the vile and insulting generalisations blaming women for men's behaviour?
🙄

Pointing out that a woman has made a shit choice is not blaming the woman for the man's behaviour.🤷‍♀️

Implying that this is the reason why most lone parents are in that situation is utterly shit behaviour. And not the case as you can see if you actually read the thread.

Do enlighten all of us who were with partner for years or even decades, co-habited, then married before children, where they behaved perfectly well throughout that time as good partners who specifically wanted children and pulled their weight with household tasks etc then suddenly changed after the children were here and buggered off, how we were magically supposed to have predicted this and are to blame for making a "shit choice"?

Or, you could just shut up and stop being so insulting to people when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Maybe because you are a misandrist

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Based on what? That I think that the men who walk out on their children are responsible for their actions, not the women and children they leave behind?

Think you might want to look up the definition, you seem a little confused.

I agree being in this situation myself, it certainly was a shock to the system to basically feel like I was a single parent. I do think in hindsight there were very light pink flags that should have given me some insight. Also before having children we didn't actually talk about what the day-to-day would look like (and we didn't really know tbh!) but that is really what everyone should be doing.

I had all of those conversations with ex-H before TTC. We had agreed we would be equal parents, share all responsibilities and childcare. I was always the higher earner, anyway. He was quite happy to go into having children on that basis, he was the one more sure of it. He still left when they were babies.

Can we just please dispel this nonsense trotted out on every single thread about this (and there are many) that there are always red flags, that women should always have predicted it, that somehow some blame must lie with us and that if we'd only been smarter in our choices everything would have been fiiiiiine. That is not the case.

Sure, some people will make bad choices and have children with people who it is obvious will not be good parents, or people they are not in established relationships with. But that is often not what has happened at all, yet time and time again these insulting tropes are trotted out even though multiple posters have shared their stories that demonstrate it's not the case for many, many of the lone parents who are the ones doing all of the hard work providing and caring for the children whose fathers could not be bothered.

My ex morphed into 1950s man as soon as I was home from the maternity unit. The rate of change was astounding. It became clear immediately that I had been 'had'.

He was (still is) outraged when I left. He genuinely thought he had solved his domestic maintenance issues for life.

I hope I've raised my son to be something better.

What bollocks. If a woman doesn’t want kids she use’s contraceptives. Why is it different for men?

@devildeepbluesea I think in reality as women we have to do better. It's the women left holding the baby at the end of the day we could debate and cry all day about how unfair it is.

The harsh reality is a man's position is different by far he doesn't carry the baby for 9 months so ultimately its far easy for a man to walk away.

Very few mothers just walk away from their kids when it's hard.

The trend of having 2,3 kids to a shit man also needs to stop too.

I agree with you. We as women can come together and ask ourselves how this issue is bloody common its almost become the normal. Which is a sad reality. All these women suggesting they were no red flags is a small percent in MOST cases there are red flags you just didn't realise. After baby no1 I didn't stay around to have the 2nd child there was no way in hell I was going to be making my own life harder.

All too often though there's baby no2 followed by 3. Why is this?

@Singapore4 how? How do we "do better" than be with a man for years, accept their proposal and suggestion of children, plan it all out, cost up childcare, loss of earnings, buy a house with rooms for multiple children, have them (at significant physical cost in some cases) live as the much vaunted "nuclear family" sharing the load until suddenly it's all a bit boring / hard and the man fucks off. Please do explain what I and others on here should have "done better"?

As for the idea that poor men don't get that second chance to decide not to be a parent that biology allows women to have (at least in the UK, let's not forget in many places abortion is illegal or v v difficult) well tough. It's ONE thing, one advantage that women have and the anger and vile spite from some on here at the idea that yeah a woman might just have control in this one instance is very telling. Men absolutely an choose abstinence, the snip, condoms, withdrawal as well as a extra (slim) help but unless they are pig ignorant they know the score. Women do too and whilst I don't think she should necessarily expect a relationship if it wasn't established first, financial support should be rigorously enforced.

It's not the finicial side I'm interested in. As a single mum I would absolutely demand marriage if someone wanted me to even consider having another child.

I know they are no guarantees but I honestly believe its better than just having a 2nd child unmarried. It's the committment side of things that I'm interested in.

Please change your tone. I think you mean WE I too am a single mother so I am not picking at ANY single mother at all. I know how shit it is BUT I can look at the situation and accept accountability I look within and from my own circumstances I can tell you there were red flags.

Why are women having multiple children to these shit fathers??? For a start I would just of stuck to the 1 child!