Do these fathers actually want children?

[Daftasyoulike]

I see a lot of posts on MN about absent Fathers who don't pay maintenance, don't make any effort to see their children, etc. Is it unreasonable to ask whether these men ever actually wanted kids in the first place, or was it a case of accidental pregnancies, which were allowed to continue in the hope that 'he will come around to the idea once the baby arrives', and then when the relationship breaks up, you find that he never really cared about having the kids in the first place, so doesn't feel he should contribute emotionally or financially to the raising of his children?

Well for many women getting married again would be very financially risky and irresponsiblr, particularly if they have children already and would be putting those children's home and financial security at risk. Not to mention the disruption and risk of moving an unrelated adult into their home.

But that is the line parroted here - it's mainly the financial security of marriage that protects a woman in case of children. To be honest, if we had been married it would have been a whole load more hassle to divorce - half my friends are now divorced and have been protracted and they have lost a lot of money.

To me, marriage isn't a sign of commitment anymore particularly given no fault divorces and I stand to lose more if I did marry. Although I don't want anymore children so it is a moot point anyway.

@QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat @Nepmarthiturn yes you are both right and raise excellent points.

YANBU

If I were a man I’d be using more than condoms if I didn’t want children that’s for sure.

I do not think many men actually want children the way women do. I know two women who have openly admitted they left it too late and had casual sex to get pregnant. Both said they were on the pill and it must not have worked- one man pays maintenance the other was already in a relationship and his gf was pregnant at the same time. He refuses to acknowledge the child.

Agree with this -
“Unfortunately the bar for men is quite low so many of us accept it. I also think some women are quite willing to overlook large red flags in male behaviour because they want a baby and they'll explain away and minimise crap behaviour because they hope a baby will change him/he'll step up when the baby arrives”.

So many unwanted children in homes, a lot of abuse. Women having children with fathers who they aren’t living with, yet there are multiple children with this same feckless father. 🙄

I agree with this 💯 Making out like women are just these helpless victims does not give them any credit at all. Of course most would have had red flags, and more than one baby is just stupid. Let alone being stupid with multiple men, come on! Maybe instead we should be telling women they should be stronger and smarter and expect more, not that they are aimless beings in their own sad destinies.

I won't "change my tone" because I am absolutely sick of everyone assuming I did something wrong when it was my ex that upped and fucked off with ow (ironically at least in part because she was a single mum and "needed" him) 🙄. I am sick of the assumption that there must have been red flags, there weren't. I'm not, of course, saying that there never are and I too slightly despair at posters who are complaining about their husband or partner's behaviour and add in that they are pregnant with no2 or 3 but plenty of us were blindsided and I'm pretty sick of being blamed for my exes poor decisions. As it is I have to cope with the practical and emotional fallout that years on, my kids still deal with (he chose her over them, and his behaviour has made his ongoing priorities very clear).

@Emptycrackedcup it's a tough pill to swallow and hear critism about ourselves yes it is especially when slogging away raising kids. I would rather hear tough words of wisdom though rather being left single parented to numerous children anyday.

I'm not blaming you I don't know you from Adam not your actual circumstances. I obviously and speaking generally.

You are clearly in the minority though if after baby no1 cane along and your DH hid his true colours until you went on to continue to have more kids to him. I certainly wasn't blaming any woman at all, accountability and blaming isn't the same thing. Its not about blame but we are here to learn surely not just continue the cycle.

I've no horse in the race to be dragging any woman down 🙄

I appreciate that this view may be controversial to many, but my DS was an accident that neither myself or his father wanted at the time. I decided I wanted to keep the baby. He wanted me to get an abortion and made it crystal clear that he didn't want any involvement. I respected his decision to not want to be involved and he hasn't been (financially, emotionallyr or physically).

@Emptycrackedcup but surely the "expecting more" should also be aimed as the men. We should expect non resident fathers to pay. We shouldn't have whole websites dedicated to helping men get out of it. We should have HMRC working with the CMS to ensure correct payment is made and if it is not, debt accrues that the man must pay back before he gets access to any state pension. It shouldn't be socially acceptable for men to see their kids twice a month (especially ones with whom they did live with and have a relationship prior to the relationship breakdown). Why are women the problem here?

@Singapore4 thanks. the thing is though, I don't think my ex did "hide his true colours". He changed. I don't think he was pretending or lying for years. I think a number of things happened that caused a perfect storm and got him to a place where he felt differently and there's not much you can do about that. Frequently women post on the Relationship board about this and how their partner has become a stranger overnight. There's no planning for that, or mitigation.

@BibbleandSqwauk don't take this the wrong way. This is my own personal opinion based upon my previous relationship and the circle of friends I have. To not see your kids, do the bare minium and pay a decent amount of money (as in the maximum effort you can) as a father you are immoral for me this is someone's character flaw. There could be numerous reasons for a relationship breakdown as a mother and again my position is totally different to a man's. There's not ANY type of "complication" where I wouldn't move heaven and earth to make sure my Son is provided for and not only that, that we spend time together.

I believe people change and relationships of course. Not seeing your child though is something fucking else. Perhaps I can't relate though as DS sees his dad but he's another one that he is the minium camp and pays CMS begrudgingly.

You are clearly in the minority though if after baby no1 cane along and your DH hid his true colours until you went on to continue to have more kids to him

No she isn't. Per the many stories on the thread.

Why do you think your opinions override the realities described by the many women who have actually lived through this?

And enforce it like tax evasion: don't pay, go to prison. Or lose your driving licence etc like in some other countries. Proper sanctions and enforcement. And stop penalising single mothers by taxing us more etc. But no, instead we get blamed for what the father has done. 🙄

I agreed with your point upthread I'm not sure where you are going with over riding anybody point.

Perhaps I have touched a nerve because I dared to ask why women have continued to have have baby no 2 and no 3 despite existing issues? Perhaps I have touched a nerve with you?

Nope. My two were both still babies when their father suddenly changed and left.

No, and again, that's a gaslighting response. @Nepmarthiturn is trying to make the point that contrary to the sweeping generalisations on here, many many single parents did not blithely carry on having babies 2 and 3 with unsuitable dads, but that circumstances change. It may also be the case that the woman wants her child to have a sibling, and while things are not perfect, what is? Better two to one dad than the messy dynamics of step and blended families perhaps? Life is difficult, messy and there is no crystal ball. The vast majority of women in this situation, when compared to the men who fathered the children are doing a stellar job, so to answer the original question, some do want them, them change, some never did, but the reality is that the child exists and should be provided for by both parents.

Oh yeah, but the post is about absent fathers who refuse to take responsibility, not mothers.

I don't understand how that's a decision worthy of respect. It was never a question of him being the sole carer, that would be you as the mother. All he had to do was give a tiny financial contribution and/or see your son occasionally.

Obviously there's nothing you can do to force him besides using the CMS but I wouldn't say respect. Maybe you didn't mean it like that. Accept more like.

Where did I say that it was a decision worthy of respect? I said that I respected his decision. That is something completely different.

I don’t think my ex wanted children. That didn’t stop him telling me he couldn’t wait for me to be pregnant and when I was, that it was the most wonderful thing he’d heard. I thought I was having a family with a loving, decent man.

Instead, he became abusive and I was forced to leave before the birth. He barely sees our child. I am lucky that at the time I had huge financial cushioning and my own decent job as well as chunky CMS from the scumbag. This was quite literally the only thing that made what happened manageable. That’s not to say what the piece of shit did hasn’t impacted me… he took away my dream of building a happy life and it’s impacted my career a little, although that would have happened regardless of our relationship. I also feel very sad that I was previously a cheerful and positive person and whilst that is still me, he took away some of my faith in people/life by what he did. He sees our child intermittently but that only began when she was 1. He had no concept of responsibility and presumably no conscience. I hope it haunts him as he ages.

Sadly there are men out there like that and it’s not the fault of women who become pregnant, or even women who become pregnant unexpectedly and don’t wait to abort.

My advice to any young women is make sure you have money and a decent job. Sadly that is the only thing that can properly protect you from the vile ways men can behave in what is still a very much sexist society.

Where are the men demanding research into male contraceptive options, fundraising for it etc? There is no demand for it as they are happy to leave the responsibility to women with the option of fucking off as a fallback in the event of an unplanned pregnancy.

It may also be the case that the woman wants her child to have a sibling, and while things are not perfect, what is?
So choosing to have a baby with someone they already know is pretty crap then. But hey, don't question that stupid decision or the impact it may have on the children because apparently, that never happens 🙄

The old sibling line is offensive. I wanted DS to have a sibling too. What a "sweeping generalised statement" to make. We all have our reasons I sure as hell wasn't following that trend I'm 1 of 4 siblings and my own mother stayed with my dad for years and she thinks she gets brownie points that we all have the same dad as though it's an achievement. Eurghh none of us 4 see our dad as a result but that's not my mother's fault is it.