Do these fathers actually want children?

[Daftasyoulike]

I see a lot of posts on MN about absent Fathers who don't pay maintenance, don't make any effort to see their children, etc. Is it unreasonable to ask whether these men ever actually wanted kids in the first place, or was it a case of accidental pregnancies, which were allowed to continue in the hope that 'he will come around to the idea once the baby arrives', and then when the relationship breaks up, you find that he never really cared about having the kids in the first place, so doesn't feel he should contribute emotionally or financially to the raising of his children?

I am old and I've only ever known one young woman who got pregnant to trap her man and she was not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

truly believe that decades ago men were more willing to marry in their early twenties because it was a way for them to get regular sex. Nowadays, sex outside of marriage is not taboo or hard to find.

Well, I wouldn’t want to be married to a msn who only married me for easy sex.
So tjis really isin’t thr positive you tried to make it into.
Not to meantion: these kind of men cheated like crazy.

*man

I’ve known four women do this, and all have confessed it to me when drunk. Exactly that tone, like, aren’t I silly?

I know on MN nobody does it, but in real life there are many mums who behave reprehensibly because they care more about having a baby than about the interests of that baby. The focus is always on dads - and it should be - but mums are always the victims heroically doing their best.

Women get away with it because they’re the ones raising the kids and they can use that as leverage against criticism - “well at least I’m still here!” - but it’s wrong. Both parents need to be accountable for the decisions they make regarding creating new humans.

I am excepting abuse cases and cases where people completely change overnight but I still believe these to be the minority even if they’re the majority on MN.

So why did people in the past get married so young compared to now?

Men are the gatekeepers of marriage. Women are the gatekeepers of sex.

Lots of women are desperate to get married and have kids and just can't find a man who also wants this.

Society pressure women to get married and have children, young.
And shame women who don’t.
Still happens today.
There is a huge stigma of being hapoy, single, childfree woman.

And again, it’s not much of a marriage if it’s only based on having sex/ couldn’t get it otherwise, what a sad life.

Society pressure women to get married and have children, young

Yes but the women could only get married if the men were willing to marry them. Why were men so much more willing in previous generations to get married young?

Still happens today.

I disagree...I think now women are more likely to be shamed for wanting to get married and fulfil their biological urge to have children. How many men describe women who are keen to settle down as "psychos?". I've heard it a lot

In 1960 the average age for men to get married was 22. Why?

Oh and average age of marriage for men last year was 33.

I disagree...I think now women are more likely to be shamed for wanting to get married and fulfil their biological urge to have children.

That’s fine, let’s keep on disagreeing.
But I will say this is the stupidist thing I’ve ever heard! Women shamed for marrying and having children 🤣
That’s just silly!

How many men describe women who are keen to settle down as "psychos?". I've heard it a lot

Never heard anything like this.
I have heard men saying women aren’t women if they don’t have kids. And the usual selfish, bitch etc.
And many men have very strong opinions hiw women should get married young, and be good little wives, with not much else going on in their lives.
Only time I’ve heard women being ’psycho’ is she’s a feminist.

But I will say this is the stupidist thing I’ve ever heard! Women shamed for marrying and having children

no, they're shamed for wanting it not doing it.

Perhaps we live in different areas amongst a different demographic. I'm in London and my circle is very middle class...most men I know would be absolutely horrified at the thought of getting married or having children in their twenties. Most are well into their thirties by the time they do that. They'd look very dimly at a broody woman in her twenties.

Not sure if it was you who mentioned young men got married young to guarantee regular sex. I think there's an element of truth.

It's not my generation but looking back to 1950s and just before. Women going around having a one night stand or a fuck buddy perhaps seen as a "disgrace" and it was a lot less common today.

I remember my nan wearing a wedding ring (unmarried). Shame and stigma was rife and happens today is seen as the norm.

The type of men you talk about, just want to blow their load inside. If they don't want kids at all they need to abstain.

They do abstain this is the actually problem hence OP.

As in not have sex.

So they should accept the who women pretend to be on birth control and fake an accidental pregnancy, or be celibate. Like a monk.

Got it.

But I will say this is the stupidist thing I’ve ever heard! Women shamed for marrying and having children

It's not the stupidest thing you ever heard. You just haven't read the post properly because that's not what it said.

Genuine question, is English your first language, because you've missed the actual meaning of the last few points you have responded too?

^ this is a thing. I was in London in this kind of social group, remember men looking shocked if a woman in her twenties even suggested a monogamous relationship. They would have treated any woman hinting at marriage as batsh*t crazy level.

@DHsPoorBack Yes.. if you have sex, that's the risk you take. If they absolutely don't want to father children they should abstain from the act that makes children.. how is it so hard to get.

It's not hard to get. The words you are saying are not hard to understand.

Absurd. Double standards. Ridiculous. Laughable. Letting women that act like shit to forever play the victim, at their child's expense. But rest assured, easy to understand.

Do you understand that if someone says to you, "I don't want children, and I'm on the pill" they are essentially telling you "Accidental pregnancy is a tiny percentage risk, and should an accident happen, I am most likely not to keep the child". You get that, right? So that's the "risk" the man is on board with.

Bullshitting that, knowing you're after a baby at any means you can, means you're telling someone the "risk" is as tiny as above, when actually it's a huge risk. So no. The man doesn't "take that risk". He takes the risk he's been lied to about. If he knew the real risk, he wouldn't go anywhere near the woman. She knows this. And could not give a fuck that it means the child is almost guaranteed to have no father. That's why she lies. Her own orchestrated gain.

But yeah, the answer is men should live a life of celibacy. That's the problem in this scenario. Jesus wept

Don't waste your time. They are bullies. Women can't do any bad in her eyes. They are all victims and martyrs.

I've never said women are all victims 😂 of course there are women who lie and manipulate, and that is disgusting. So men should be fully aware of that and protect themselves from potentially becoming a father when they don't want to.
If they want to freely have sex then they need to accept they may become fathers and take responsibility.

MN feminism at its finest. Men should abstain from sex until they’re prepared to give the women the babies they’re entitled to.

Look, men should be responsible for their own reproductive choices, that goes without saying. They should always be wearing condoms and not relying on women. But they shouldn’t have to literally be celibate because some women apparently have no morals.

They don't need to be celibate if they accept they could become fathers.
I'm talking about the ones who really don't want that possibility. Don't do the one activity that literally makes offspring..