To be a bit sad about how eldest DS’s life has turned out?

[SimoneSayz]

I’ve got three sons aged 19, 21 and 23. The eldest, P, has always been a sweet, loving and kind boy who lacked confidence. When he finished university he’d never had a girlfriend, just a few dates here and there. The younger two had plenty of girlfriends and I know that made P sad. We have a close family and spend a lot of time with cousins.

P started work at 21 and quickly made friends with an older married woman with three young kids, B, who was 30 at the time. I don’t know the exact ins and outs but within six months of meeting P, she’d split from her husband and P moved from our house into her rented one. A few months after that, they moved 300 miles away to be closer to her family.

It’s now two years on and they’ve established a business and a life up there. We rarely see him, never alone, but sometimes he calls on his way to work and he sounds very stressed and isolated. He doesn’t have any friends of his own up there, never sees his old friends, and he works long and antisocial hours on their business whilst she looks after the kids. B is now pregnant.

I know he’s an adult, and has made his own choices, but AIBU to feel a little sad that he’s so far away and now probably always will be?

It sounds like he has had good role models and comes from a normal functioning family.

You think he's settled with a nearly decade older woman with 3 kids at 21 because he had good role models and comes from a good family?! Plenty of ppl with good role models, from good families do not settle at 21 with a significantly older partner and take on step parenting responsibilities for 3 children.

From reading the op I think it's much more to do with his lack of relationship opportunities and experience.

I’m sure he knows what condoms are and any man choosing not to use them knows exactly what that means.

Nonetheless young people are even more likely to take risks and be naive and blase than older people.

But, without being rude about OPs son, he doesn’t sound like a typical young bloke. He was never going to be out dating lots of women and doing the young, free and single thing of partying, dating and sleeping around! Without meeting this woman, he may have just stayed home with mum and dad, getting zero experience of anything. But some parents would be ok with that because they’re close by. 🙄

Can we stop trying to make out like 23 is that young. I have a 19 year old son and he knows to use condoms. He doesn’t want kids for years, if at all, in fact, kids now would be a disaster for his future plans so he doesn’t take risks. It’s a choice. Bring blasé about contraception because you’re young is bullshit.

I wondered about the brain development/maturation thing and if it's definitely 25; reputable sources are citing mod to late 20s, some even say 30.

That affects all kinds of decision.making, reading, risk taking etc.

It is simply not reasonable to treat a 21-23 yr old as being on a completely level playing field with over 39 adults, and to treat them as fully mature & reasoning even in general.

I'd consider anyone engaging in relationships with people under 25, who are significantly older than them, to be at best unwise and at worst predatory, esp when it's involving huge life changing decisions for that young person.

Op it struck me that you said he feels they can't separate as he can't afford to run two households. That sounds like he feels responsible for her 3 kids and guilty that she left her marriage.

I would have a serious conversation with him that it's ok to separate, he can be involved with his child and raise them, but he is not responsible for her kids. Their mum and their dad is responsible for them. He can live in his own house, be involved with his child, work a different job, visit his family - he does not have to be in a relationship he doesn't want to be in. We would tell anyone this, anyone who posted here, you don't have to stick out a relationship that makes you unhappy.

He was only 21 when he got into a relationship with her.

He had had no chance to prove whether he would become permanently/long term single.

It's a massive assumption that he would, just because he wasn't particularly successful before 21.

I was intensely shy and awkward when I was younger and did not get into relationships til 21 and older. Then I increasingly dated like a maniac.

You have no idea how it would have gone for him, it's pretty ridiculous to say "oh well if this nearly decade older married woman with 3 kids who wanted to leave her husband hadnt picked him up, he'd have been alone and living with Manny and daddy forever".

No, I’m saying I don’t think he’s a person that would be easily taken advantage of ....because he comes from a family with good role models. He could have walked away from this woman quite easily back to his parents who would have welcomed him with open arms. He wasn’t stuck like a vulnerable person with a crap family and no good role models in life. He could still walk away now, see his child and go back to his home town. For people with supportive families, it’s easier. The fact he hadn’t left before the pregnancy or after could mean that although he misses his family, he’s perfectly fine in the bed he’s made. Because he’s 23 not 18.

I think he got into it because he thought he wouldn't get a woman/partner otherwise, and will stay in it while he still believes that.

He'll also stay in it because he's now tied to get with a child, and his parents raised him to be decent and responsible.

He'll also stay in it because he's now bonded with her kids and would feel guilty leaving them, after she broken up their original family partly to be with him. And if she moved them 300 miles away presumably their bio Dad doesnt see them that often and apparently (?) hadn't moved to be in their region.

He'll also stay in it because his job & livelihood is now their business together, if I understand correctly.

Etc etc.

There are lots and lots of things making it extremely difficult for him to leave.

I think he'll wreck his MH (and it sounds like is possibly already suffering somewhat) in the process of trying to leave, if he even does.

Because he’s 23 not 18

Yeah cause 18, when school children are still running around in their uniforms in sixth form is a good baseline to measure maturity from.

Why don't you measure it from 30, an actual indicator of human (semi) maturity; how does 23 look then.

It's young.

Do you have inside knowledge? 😂 You have no idea, there’s lots of assumptions.

If we’re going to just start assuming shit, we could assume that OP is overbearing and her son was happy to escape 300 miles away, that he plays down his happiness to not upset mum who can’t cope with her adult son making his own decisions.

So any decisions we make under 30 aren’t valid. Jesus Christ. I had finished uni, had a job, a mortgage and a baby on the way at 24, and had our second at 29. I guess none of that counts as I wasn’t 30. 😂

.....boy who lacked confidence. When he finished university he’d never had a girlfriend, just a few dates here and there. The younger two had plenty of girlfriends and I know that made P sad

No, I can just read.

And empathy is a wonderful thing.

If you had any, you wouldn't make your jab about op being overbearing - which is both insulting & unfair ... And from what she's written; highly highly unlikely.

That's what you took from what I wrote.

Okaaay.

Okaaay. 🤣

I understand your concerns about him and feel your sadness.
i just want to say that face time is a life saver for me and means I get almost daily quality time with our DS and grandchildren across the other side of the world, over their breakfast time. I see their interactions, hear their plans for the day and watch the children’s development. We play little games, tell stories, sing and I show the children old toys from the toy box which they love.
It takes will and effort from both sides to do this but it makes us all happy and means we can put up with the distance more easily.
Could the rewards of face time be helpful in your situation if your DS can set a little time aside a few times a week. I know it’s not the same as a real hug and sit down chat together so it also helps to have a visit to look forward to.
Your DS sounds lovely by the way. Hopefully, he will reap the rewards of his hard work and family commitment soon and be able to travel to join in your next big family celebration.

I’d be more sad if I felt my son had been the other man responsible for the breakdown in a marriage, as sounds like it might have been the case, and if that is so reminding him of his duties for he young children and ho have been through so much upheaval. Not sure if that’s been picked up upthread but do think it’s curious if we were talking about the other woman here she would be completely chastised here!

I get it, this isn't great. Call me judgemental but I always find it a bit off when a stepparent isn't old enough to be the parent of a child they've taken on. This relationship hasn't started in a healthy functional way and being so far away from him must be very stressful.

All you can do is keep lines of communication open. He sounds isolated without much opportunity for building a support network. I get that is a different scenario to missing him but knowing he's having a great time. It's normal to grieve for the open future he could still have had at this age.

Pps saying get him to move home. They have moved home, her home, which is what often happens in relationships. They move to be closer to the woman’s family because the woman’s family help out with the children. Which is exactly what they are doing.
Also encouraging him to visit by himself? Leave his pregnant girlfriend alone with 3 other children? Nope!
OP should be going to visit them, he has chosen and loves this woman, if you try and drive a wedge between them it will only backfire and you’ll lose your son all together.
Him being unhappy, he’s probably very tired and very stressed as is life with small children, is anyone with 3/4 children of that age happy? Even if you are inside I think on the outside you just come across as exhausted.

I wouldn’t be thrilled at how my child’s life had turned out if it were me in this situation honestly. However it sounds like he’s a good father, holding down a good job and in time he will make new friends in his new location

No, I don't need to "educate myself" just because I disagree with you 🙄

IMO it's incredibly patronising to suggest that 23 year olds with older partners are incapable of making their own decisions.

Seven years is hardly a massive imbalance - plenty of people on here are with partners with that age gap and nobody bats an eyelid about it, let alone talks about a power imbalance.

He's not a child who was groomed by some dodgy older lady - he's a grown man - an educated university graduate who made the decision to participate in an affair, break up a marriage and have a baby.

I don't know why so many people are keen to excuse a man's shitty behaviour while pinning the blame on the woman. They're both as bad as each other!

The average age of first marriage is something like 31 for a woman, a bit older for a man, I think.

Okay? That doesn't mean lots of people don't get married at a younger age than that, though lots of my friends have been married with children since their early twenties and I'm only 34.

Lots of people" are not married with kids at 23. But even if they were, it is unlikely those ppl would be married to partners nearly a decade older, and also step parents to their almost decade older partners 3 kids.

But that's his choice.

As well as moving away from their family.

95% of people I know don't live close to their fame is.

As well as being bound up with that oldrvpsryber for work/income.

Again, that's his choice. He's a grown man, stop infantilising him.

You keep going on about his age in isolation (which is still very young - to repeat, your brain is still developing til something like 25), it is not only his age; it is the age gap, the life experience gap, the circumstances etc etc.

23 is not "very young" - he's a grown adult for goodness sake. Why are we so keen to infantilise and patronise people in their twenties nowadays?

He's not fresh out of sixth form - he's a grown up with a university degree and a job!

Another poster had advised you to educate yourself, I hope you do.

Nah, I don't need to "educate myself" just because I disagree with you. You sound incredibly patronising yourself, actually - there's no need for it.

I think the fact you’re recovering from a stroke is a key factor here too. The aftermath of health events like that can be very destabilising for quite a long time, and it’s not uncommon to have strong feelings of wanting close family to be physically close. Your son is hundreds of miles away, with commitments, so this isn’t possible just now.

To be clear, your son’s situation sounds less than ideal. But I think at least some of your discomfort is coming from your extended emotional reaction to your own health situation.

Everyone here is focusing on your son and his partner but I hope you are getting the support and care that you need from the others who are around you; partner, other kids, friends, plus medical professionals etc.

I’d be sad in your shoes too. That’s a lot of baggage for someone so young

Thank you @Knullrufs. The stroke has been very hard on me and I’ve had to relearn how to do everything. I would love to visit P more often but it’s very challenging, and even when we go to visit we stay in a hotel and don’t spend a lot of time with them and none with P alone. I have a lot of support from our family though.

@AprilFool23 the pregnancy was a “happy accident” so I think B was on the pill but it didn’t work. I did ask P if he wanted more children and he’d said not until he’s 25 at least. But he is happy about it now and the baby’s due soon.

I can’t be sure, but I don’t think P would have been single and living at home forever. When he finished uni in the June, the plan was to save a bit then rent a house with his best friend the following January because that’s when his best friend graduated. There was talk of four of them renting together and three of them did with someone else. P and B’s relationship had just come to light in the January (I expect it started in October and I am not proud of him for that) and they moved away in the May. He was still 21 and had known B for less than a year when they left.

Seven years is hardly a massive imbalance

You cannot even get basic facts like the age gap correct...whuch sets the tone for the validity of all the other nonsense in your posts; that I just can't even be bothered countering