Furious (again) at sister... how to raise this with DD

[Yellobird]

Met up with my sister today, along with my DC. We don't see eye to eye and have taken very different paths, but my children like her so I go along with it.

DSis has no children. She was having a completely inappropriate conversation with DD about the gender pay gap and its because women can't go part time (in her job)- DD is 9!!! DD asked if that's why she doesn't have children. Sis went on to say that it's part of the reason, but mainly she likes her free time. Now bearing in mind DD thinks she's brilliant and hangs off her every word. Sis went on to say 'imagine if mum and dad wanted to go out tonight, on the spur of the moment. And then check out a new bar or comedy club. We'll they can't because they need to be at home with you and your brothers'

As if DH and I would even want to do that!!! Anyway, DH is doing bath time and I've said I'll go sit with her in bed and talk it through. DH says it's best to leave her so she doesn't dwell and get upset.

WWYD? Utterly furious that Sis has put us in this position after what should have been a nice family day.

I think the gender pay gap issue is ok to talk about with a young child but as for the not being able to go out on impulse that's wrong.
Your sister is implying that your 9 year old is a burden and more fun could be had without her.

This would be a horrible message to hear as a child.

I would interpret it as not far off from "I wish you hadn't been born".

I have similar conversations with my 8 year old niece. Told her all about the gender pay gap, feminism, how having kids holds you back in the workplace. And I have two kids myself - both boys who I also tell this stuff too. Things will never change if we pretend we have equality. I also joking tell my boys that we’d be out having fun on a Saturday night rather than at home watching Ant and Bloody Dec if we didn’t have kids….

And this is why we have a generation of children that can’t cope with anything…..

Neither of these are age inappropriate or outside the kinds of discussions they'd have at school at those ages (or younger for the Trump conversation).
Sounds like you baby your kids.

Isn't it just?

I think at age 9 your DD will naturally have questions about why your life may be different to you sister and why she does not have children. Your DD asked a question and your sister answered it honestly. I think that your DD will appreciate that and that there are different views about what people want from their lives.

You think 15 year olds should be kept in the dark about politics, & predatory men?

When my DD was 8, she would start conversations about social-political stuff. Obviously basic, but she was insightful about the ridiculousness of convention, the inequity of wealth & privilege ... why are you so intent on sheltering your kids? Nobody pushed it on her, she was just a bright, enquiring child, like many are.Why would you want to quash any of that in your own child? Especially as she is, as you say, "a thinker".

I suspect this has far more to do with your dislike of your sister than genuine worry for your DD's. Stop shielding them from the world, & let them understand that other people have various opinions. How else are they going to inform themselves, & genuinely make up their own minds about what they think & how they live?

I’m glad sanity has prevailed on Mumsnet here. I was about 5 pages in when I realised this was genuine and most likely not a wind-up.

OP, equality including pay gap etc is taught in the primary school curriculum! It’s also something a 9 year old will be coming across if she reads a wide range of books. I used to be a children’s book blogger and there are MANY 8+ books that allude to the gender pay gap, and other forms of discrimination including racism. Let me guess you don’t talk to her about that either? I am almost sure if you or your kid was for eg. a POC or ND you wouldn’t be so casual about relegating unfairness and discrimination to something that shouldn’t be discussed until they’re adults, because you wouldn’t have that luxury!

I can’t see why your kids like your sis, she sounds very well-balanced and Broad minded and I’m afraid you sound very limited in your thinking and narrow-minded.

I’m very uneasy about people who dismiss equality as “politics” and act as if it’s something they can just opt out of being mindful.

I will say though that comment about spontaneity might fly over most kids head but it could rub some kids up the wrong way if they’re overly sensitive or insecure in some way. However as pp have said you can rectify that easily by casually mentioning that Aunty has her own opinions and lifestyle which is valid and cool way but for you missing out on last minute stuff is worth it to spend time with them…and you wouldn’t swap them for the world etc .

You know DD's aunt didn't give birth to her - right?
And was honestly answering a question posed to her by DD?

Why did you roll your eyes and walk out when she was discussing this with your 15 y/o?? This is not inappropriate. It is great that kids are aware of what's going on in the world. I discuss things like this with my 12 year old daughter all the time. At this kind of age they hear it from their friends, from school, from the Internet. Surely it's good to have some input?? YABVU.

I’m very uneasy about people who dismiss equality as “politics” and act as if it’s something they can just opt out of being mindful.
👏

Well said @Sailingaround
Has the same stink as the airy "oh, I just don't SEE colour" doesn't it?

I just think you don't like your sister 🤷‍♀️

One of my kids in particular (younger than your DD actually, although admittedly very switched on) struggles with anxiety and is the sort of kid who endlessly mulls things over. And yet I can easily imagine how I would address this conversation with them and make them understand. It's not a bad thing to see other viewpoints and a 9 year is very capable of this. Approaching it like she's had some huge, really distressing revelation is only going to frame it that way in her mind. And there's absolutely no need.

Talking about politics with a 15 year old is very appropriate and normal too.

Kids aren't stupid. Whilst there's no need to tell them the horrors of the world, they are usually capable of far more than you seem to give yours credit for.

Cripes, I feel sorry for the sister. Wonder if she realises how OP feels about her.

Why shouldn’t the kid know that having children restricts your spontaneity? That may be something your sister doesn’t want to compromise, but that isn’t the same thing as her saying it’s a bad thing, or that parents resent it. She’s saying it wasn’t/isn’t what she wants from her life, which is absolutely fair enough. Your daughter asked a question and she answered it.

Your sister is entitled to express her view- it's not as if she was advocating Satanism or something to your DD. I would just mention it to DD casually tomorrow at some point and tell her nicely I disagreed with DSis and that I'd rather be at home with her than going out to a comedy club.

I think your sister is trying too hard.

I suspect your DD likes your DSis because she doesn't talk down to her.

The correct response would have been, 'What Aunty said was true, so it's a good thing Dad and I really love spending time with you, and would much rather spend time with you at home than go to a new bar or comedy club. Different people like to do different things, and Aunty likes to be able to go out more than we do. It's not wrong, it's just different.'

but my children like her so I go along with it

Yeah there’s a reason for that, think about it.

When DS was 6 he was doing the sound “cr” in phonics and wrote in his book “credit crunch” as DH and I had said jokingly we hoped Santa didn’t have a credit crunch that year! There’s no reason at all you can’t discuss more typically adult things with your kids.

About the not going out spontaneously, surely you can just say to DD that you’d much rather spend time with her than go out, but that DA doesn’t feel the same way and it’s perfectly fine to have different opinions.

And you’re being totally ridiculous about the Trump issue. Kids need warning about people like him.

Surely it isn't news to the average 9 year old that having children restricts your freedoms? And if it wasn't already it's good that she has had this conversation so she can start to understand that

Snap! Not a big deal. My dd 9 knows about gender gap and all about the strikes etc. It's current affairs! Nothing upsetting saying you made different choices?

You clearly struggle to cope with opinions that differ to yours 😂

I think you’ve pretty much proved the point of the posters who suggested you were overreacting at a difference of opinion

You won’t admit you could be a tiny bit in the wrong will you OP. Stop babying your kids! They live in a real world not a fairytale, there’s nothing wrong with discussing real world issues with them.

I have a daughter the same age aand a couple of sisters who are off the wall and I would no twant to leave the kids with but I can’t see the problem here. My daughter would hear that and say “Mum and Dad dont want to go out” or she’d say “ they can still go but they’d just need to get a sitter for us.”It would not be a big deal. What’s the problem?

Why are you furious again at your sister OP? What’s the back story?