To think family court can't be THAT bad?

[RabbitWarrren]

I have gone down a rabbit hole of threads on here and Twitter accounts of women fighting to get their kids back after abusive and/or rich men have got full custody or majority custody. Some truly awful stories

Am I being a total cow to think there must be more to it? Loving, caring, devoted mothers losing their kids to men who have criminal records? Or even just losing their kids entirely to men who never lifted a finger before?

I don't mean that these stories aren't horrific and unjust. But just that it must be something must be more complex for a mum to lose their kids?

Am I being naive? Victim blaming? Is the family court system really that criminal?

Exactly this. I have a friend in a similar situation as you and her view was 'at least he's making an effort' I had to explain the real situation because it's a misconception. It's not effort it's control.

That's insanity. Did you complain about Cafcass formally? Not that they would do anything tbh. I want the Cafcass officer involved with my case to see her failings and the consequences they have had. They need to take accountability

What do you mean 'in defiance of concerns'. I'm considering appeal and need to know if I have a chance or not

Your OP doesnt match your subsequent posts. You know why it happens due to the man you are with. The hatred for the mother drives some men like nothing else and it will be their mission in life to destroy her. It is a powerful motivater.

Yes it's appalling, our Caffcass officer (male) came to my house , talked about nothing but his family and hobbies, showed me photos of him on holiday and never once discussed my daughter.
I finally got him out at 11pm !
There was an investigation after I reported him but I never found out what the outcome was.

@SpringMum30 - you need a lawyer. You can appeal an order if you think the judge has made an error of fact or law in their decision.

You will need some evidence for either.

@SpringMum30 yes we did. One aspect of the report was altered before the hearing and we were told the rest would be corrected in court. That didn't happen despite our solicitors protestations and even eventually despite ex's protestations (when she realised it wasn't all going to go her way, though most of it did).
The cafcass officer was questioned for a long while and even admitted she had messed up in places though not the full extent of it. All of it was ignored. It left us wondering what the point of it all was tbh.

So frustrating and disappointing!

I do have one but I didn't ask to appeal at the end of the hearing because I was honestly in shock. I've changed my mind now but not sure if it's too late. Waiting to hear from my solicitor as the barrister appointed said he would draft an appeal if I decided to go down this route.

@SpringMum30 you get 30 days to lodge an appeal don't you?

I don't know but hope so. Looking into this now

I feel sick reading this thread, it's awful. I'm so sorry to everyone and all the many children suffering. The corruption and misogyny is almost medieval.
I am scared as my wealthy well spoken charming abuser is taking me to court over access to our 14 year old and accusing me of alienation when it's his abuse causing them to not want to see him. Does anyone know from their experiences, will the fact my child is teenager mean they are less likely to be forced to have damaging contact against their wishes?

@Lightpatterns my DD was 14 and DS 11. They were listened to by CAFCASS however, the criminal aspect of ex DH meant the hurdles were far greater for him. They each got their own letter from CAFCASS outlining the' terms'. DD never read hers.

I think if your DD can clearly show her own words and reasons she doesn't want to do overnights and holidays but she doesn't mind a midweek dinner if it doesn't interfere with her clubs type of reasons rather than her categorically saying I don't want to see him because he's horrible - then they will think alienation. Whereas if she can give solid reasons of his behaviour to her that she found difficult to handle, such as he always cries about his life, he says cruel things about the other people in my family ( not specifically you mum) and it makes me uncomfortable. It does need to come from her and not have any resemblance to what you say.

I expressed how ex laid his emotional troubles on DD shoulders and she was unable to cope and she said he makes me feel bad but I don't know why.

Try not to express no contact at all costs. This shows some bitterness

Ex has letter contact to DS but not DD. Christmas and Birthday cards and gifts are allowed via post. This is called indirect contact and in our case, the letters are checked before hand by my mum. And I have to send ex mini updates regularly. If DS wants to write back, I have to facilitate. He doesn't so far.

Absolutely, they consider age 13 plus able to decide. But will still encourage it and say you should do everythinh to facilitate it etc.

Hi @wejammin I think for me, I didn't go into it expecting it to be a nice experience. I understand that the whole system is underfunded, training budgets cut, Judges and staff all under pressure and drained, and it's not their job to make me feel at ease I guess and they are obviously professionally detached. But I didn't expect to feel unsafe and unheard.

The first judge (female) who granted my non-mol was decent, the 2nd one (female) who heard our non-molestation case over-rode the 1st judge's recommendations in favour of ex that he didn't need to leave the family home. She told us both off like we were a pair of naughty kids because my daughters statement included where he'd try to rape me upstairs and my daughter had come into the room because she was frightened and worried, he threw something at her to get out then went into her room and grabbed her by the throat to threaten her never to come in my room again. She was 13 😔it was hugely terrifying and traumatic and I was trapped (as I had been for years) in a placating/egg-shell walking position to try and keep us all safe. Something that gets used against you in court that actually, because you responded nicely to some text messages, agreed to a takeaway etc, then that was proof that your marriage was fine and you were now making up stories of abuse.

This Judge said something along the lines of 'I don't know what's going on at home but you two need to pull yourselves together and accept the marriage is over(??) - you'll need to live together in a civilised manner while you finalise the divorce'.

Obviously he was crying and saying that he was not a perpetrator of abuse. The judge was sympathising with him, asked if he was ok and told him to take his time etc. I didn't say a word. My solicitor appealed that I had had no choice but to make me and the kids homeless by fleeing the marital home to temporary accomodation when I knew he was going to be served with a non-mol because I was terrified of him for my kids and me and that we couldn't be expected to live together after that while still divorcing, especially as he had the financial means to move out.

I don't care who you are, how can anyone not see the danger in that situation? I just couldn't believe that with all the evidence/police report/sw report/video evidence the judge said that.

I understand it's luck of the drawer, but that's not good enough. I believe that judge was potentially putting our lives in danger - her eye-rolling about claims of abuse was audible.

Anyway, the appeal in court did work, but only thanks to my solicitor really arguing it not the judge - I remember we had to go out of court and finalise it and go back in. He agreed to move out as long as the report from my daughter could be re-written to paint him in a more favourable light, he refused to move out if I didn't agree to that - so I did. Crazy. All that mattered to him was that he 'looked' like a decent person. All that mattered to me was that he fuck right off out of our lives and that statement was just words after all. But they were the truth.

You're being naive unfortunately.

Listen to the Filia podcast about cafcass and the family courts.

I don't think it's actively set up to favour abusive men as such - I think it just operates on a very clear basis that the only possible threat to children is parental alienation, and that it is in their interest to have a relationship with both parents. It's almost like there ought to be a separate process to screen for contact with a parent being harmful to children, but this doesn't actually exist. That's what makes it dangerous IMO. They're pushing for contact in all situations, even the ones where it's harmful.

There seems to be no acknowledgment of the fact that parents who are amicably separated will likely not need to go through court, so the ones who do will have extremely high chances of domestic violence/coercive control and the extremely gendered nature of this.

I don't really understand why it's so different in the family courts for children in the care system where these harms are considered and taken into account vs the family courts for child residency and access after divorce or separation.

Agreed. I think this is exactly what has gone wrong and it's a horrible inversion of what should be happening

Agreed. I think this is exactly what has gone wrong and it's a horrible inversion of what should be happening

And I would never trust a man whose ex had the courage to seek the help of the family court to protect her children from abuse. However charming he was. However compellingly he described her as "manipulative" or " mentally ill"

Shudder! I would run a mile.

@RabbitWarrren he might not; none of this might happen. I left a very abusive and violent relationship in full expectation that he would abuse me through the family court and except for our financial settlement in the divorce, we've never been to court and we've sorted out everything fairly amicably

Sadly this.

I understand what you mean but there are genuinely women out there who are manipulative and mentally unwell which is evidenced in their behaviour. I think it is important to not instantly dismiss a man based on him saying these things as he could very well have been the victim of abuse himself which is why he may be so angry towards her.

@LegallyFit I think the point is that it's a minority though. Calling a woman mentally after fleeing domestic abuse is one of the most common tactics abusers use. Text book behaviour

Yeah I know what you mean - I think coming out of an experience like this you'd hopefully be able to discern between a man slagging his ex off instantly when you hadn't even asked, compared to you both getting to know each other, talking and sharing about your past experiences.

I wouldn't exactly hit out with my story straightaway, I'd look like a bunny boiler 😅