To think family court can't be THAT bad?

[RabbitWarrren]

I have gone down a rabbit hole of threads on here and Twitter accounts of women fighting to get their kids back after abusive and/or rich men have got full custody or majority custody. Some truly awful stories

Am I being a total cow to think there must be more to it? Loving, caring, devoted mothers losing their kids to men who have criminal records? Or even just losing their kids entirely to men who never lifted a finger before?

I don't mean that these stories aren't horrific and unjust. But just that it must be something must be more complex for a mum to lose their kids?

Am I being naive? Victim blaming? Is the family court system really that criminal?

I am so sorry for what you have all been through, there are some horrific experiences.

I've experienced the family Court from the perspective of a mother and from my DH perspective (8 court cases combined) and I have noticed a huge difference in the treatment between the sexes. I found in my personal experience that if you are a man, you are automatically an abuser and starting court cases to be malicious. DHs ex is a very good manipulator and regularly turns on the waterworks. She managed to manipulate social workers and psychologists.

Social workers painted my DH to be an abusive monster based on what DSS told them - all of which were lies and I can only guess that his mum coached him to say these things. So due to DSS comments, DH was the bad guy. After 18 months, DH had enough of his sons lies and had serious words with him. DSS then started being more honest but then this was construed as DH alienating his son from mum.

Mum was painted out to be an angel even though DH was the victim of abuse from her. There was even evidence that she physically abused him but all that got brushed under the carpet. There was evidence she had told their son to lie to Police, but again all this was conveniently brushed aside.

In the end, my DH was fighting to keep contact despite not having done anything to warrant that treatment. His legal team advised him to not challenge the psychological report (it was a load of sexist crap) as he could lose contact. Yet, mum was guilty of so much worse, yet her contact was never questioned.

The whole system makes me sick, right from social workers to the court psychologists. From my experience, they support the women at all costs (just what I have observed).

There needs to be a root and branch overhaul of the system as as it stands currently women and children are at the mercy not only of their abusers but the institutionalised misogyny of judges and cafcass.

I was involved with one case where the father freely admitted to and apologised for raping the mother and physically abusing the daughter but the judge applauded the father for his honesty and called the mother manipulative. Despite countless medical and teachers reports backing the mum.

She was forced into weekly contact with her rapist and the child suffered further physical abuse.

The vast majority of women are not restricting access to be vindicative. Indeed in many years I have never seen it. They are simply trying to protect their children. Contact at all costs is state sanctioned abuse.

You summed it up perfectly 👏🏽👏🏽

Forgive me for being skeptical of all these women loyally sure their new partner couldn't possibly have been abusive to his ex and therefore ex must be some horrible manipulative person. (Because he says they are)

I am sure my ex spins that yarn to his new partner (and everyone else he knows too). He was horrifically abusive and endangered mine and my son's life several times.

I wouldn't date a man whose ex accused him of abused, it's far more likely to be true than not.

Exactly. My ex moved a new partner in within months of us separating. We're still married since he is prolonging the divorce. She does the majority of care for the children and running around for him. Manipulation at its 'finest'

My ex slams the door between my face and his new partners if we chat, yet I think she (and her family) still believe I am the awful manipulative one.

His family think the same too, he can't do any wrong in his parents eyes.

That's why I am unconvinced by all the new partners /grandparents posting on here who are so sure the man they are talking about is a picture of innocence being dragged through the court by a manipulative/mentally ill ex. It's almost certain that she was actually the victim of his abuse.

I'd be very interested to know, as a practitioner, and taking into account the fact that court system is so under resourced - what is the main thing that could have been done differently in your cases that would have made you feel differently about the PROCESS? Not necessarily the outcome, because all cases turn on their own facts, but the way you were treated/spoken to by the judge and the court.

😔 'mentally ill ex' sounds familiar. I had to produce a letter from the GP just to prove I was not mentally ill. It's ridiculous. You can actually have mental health issues and receive support and medication etc to enable you to still parent and be a great mother anyway!

I don’t have personal experience but a friend many years ago finally left an abusive relationship and had to go into hiding. If he knew where she was he would have killed her. He took her to court for access, then would follow her home. She took the kids and disappeared. It’s a huge risk because is she is found the penalty will be huge. But If she didn’t, she probably wouldn’t be alive. The court doesn’t care, and puts people’s lives at risk.

I had no choice other than to go through the family courts as my ex left me for another woman then demanded custody. I had to fight it. I'm now 6 figures in debt and the contact arrangements are causing my children immense psychological damage and I gave been diagnosed with PTSD.

I bet his parents and his new partner think the sun shines out of his arse though

so sorry you and your children have been through so much

They award contact to peadophiles FFS then try get someone to supervise. I think if your children's father has been convicted for incident images you have a right to cease all contact until the child is of an age to decide themselves.

I've read every single post and it's heartbreaking to see how badly the family courts are letting children above all else down.

Surely a simple overhaul to the system is threefold:

1. Any confirmed abuse as charged by the police automatically prevents the abuser from having access
2. Any confessions of abuse in court are treated as legal confessions and are referred to the police for investigation, no access until resolved
3. Perjury becomes applicable in family court with real and substantial penalties

Whilst I'm sure it wouldn't fix everything, surely it would tip the balance far closer to fair and safe outcomes for children.

Sending strength to all of you fighting an unfair fight that the law is complicit in

A very close family friend had a dc who disclosed severe abuse lasting a decade. He went to jail.. When he got out court ordered contact was given for his dc that he wasn't accused of abusing.
That dm fled with her dc..
The judge imo made her do that.

You get a court transcript from the sentencing (a conviction will mean criminal proceedings occurred) and you attach that document to the application you make to the family court to remove PR. If you have a judge who will not remove PR, apply again (that’s what I did and PR was removed by a different judge) or you can settle for Limited PR which severely reduces PR (but my thoughts are: Go ALL the way).

I think the key thing here is those that have representation fair far better in family court than those self mitigating.

Well in DH case, I've seen his exes behaviour for myself so I know she is abusive. Also, I've been with DH for 9 years and not once has he been abusive towards me.

Apologies if that isn't what you meant.

I think the key thing here is those that have representation fair far better in family court than those self mitigating.

I got PR removed. I’m LIP. I’m my own advocate in court. What I do have and highly recommend investing in is a barrister who specialises in your particular needs. I don’t talk often with my barrister. Only when I am preparing for a hearing. I do all the paperwork and research. I do the labour. He does the Law.
Over the course of 18 months, I’ve paid the barrister £2k (for guidance with divorce/financial settlement and separately, removal of PR. He drafted the order). Best investment ever.

This is so horrifying that it's hard to even comprehend - this is the second time I've heard something similar here. I mean it's practically enabling the abuse of children and it's such a ludicrous decision, why a judge would rule this way?

99% of family court decisions enable abuse but its more damaging apparently for the child to not have a relationship with their father. Someone at court/cafcass decided this one day and then this blanket decision making devoid of risk assessments was applied to everyone.

My partner was talking to a lady in our local grocery shop, she wanted to leave her abusive ex husband two years ago. He told a lie and said she hit their six month old baby. Now she sees her baby once every fornight for a few hours, supervised. The baby clings on to the mum when it’s time to separate and both cry. The only thing keeping the mum going is this baby calling her mummy. She has had two hearings made ineffective by the husband and waits months and months to hear about the next one. Free, very basic legal aid provided but it’s not enough. I despair when I hear about family courts

I agree having legal advice is vital. Women should use direct access barristers to help. There are many judges who will just make orders in defiance of concerns. Those orders will have grounds of appeal - takes a lawyer to spot them.

Don't assume judges have special skills in family work. Some may do. Others may just be a standard district judge who has social attitudes of over 30 years ago. It can be a lottery of who you get and that can make a huge difference.

What you can't do is expect that a judge will see through a manipulative or difficult person. These cases are ten a penny so you have got to have really good evidence and lots of it.

It's awful. And cafcass are worse. Our entire case was based on a Report from cafcass that was riddled with huge and obvious mistakes, contradicted itself, was biased and was just in places wholly inaccurate. Cafcass acknowledged this when it was pointed out and the court were advised and yet the judgement was STILL based on the contents of the report. Our lives and that of two children inexorably altered based on a report that everyone involved aknowledged was incorrect. I'll never understand it.

Until you're in it, you wouldn't believe it's possible.

put it this way, amongst my friends, I consider myself to be the lucky one that my ex barely bothers with the kids at all - because I see what some of my friend's exes put them and the kids through, with the help of the courts, and it could be a lot, lot worse than being an unsupported single parent.

Tbh I didn't want to go down the 'he is abusive' route because at that point I didn't think what he did was bad enough (as only emotional) to warrant dredging things up and potentially making me look petty/like a basketcase and also I don't think I really had processed at that point how he had manipulated me over the years. I'm glad I didn't, but people don't understand why I still don't want to talk/be near him, they think I am being irrational and I'm sure whomever he is with plus their family all think he is wonderful ..as I did - until after we broke up and I looked back.