To think anyone with 4+ kids must be run ragged

[Peppadog]

How does anyone manage with 4 kids and still feel like they are coping and enjoying life? I'm asking this partly because we have 3 and are considering a 4th. Every Mumsnet thread I've googled seems generally to warn people off, says the children miss out, parents spread too thin etc.
Does anyone have 4 and really love it and think they still get enough time with each child?
This is a bit of a cheek AIBU but there is never much traffic on large families!

@BreadInCaptivity well that's the perspective of your in-laws, at least as they've chosen to share with you.

It's not been my experience (as one of 5) nor my siblings. So there's at least 5 of us in the world that disagree with your in-laws 😁 We loved our childhood, we're close with each other, don't feel we missed out and all went on to be happy and successful in our lives. Our parents were total naturals with a large number of kids, they still are now.

It's really not a case of x no of children = good, y no of children = bad. The dynamic in every family is different.

I only have 2but have friends with 4 and 5, one has 6. I've three friends with 4.
They're all wealthy though, mum doesn't work outside of the home.
I do feel a bit sorry for my friend's elder children, the one with 6 kids as they put the younger ones to bed, read them a story etc.

Every family we know with 4 + seem pretty happy to be honest. If you want to do it and you think you can cope mental load and finances wise then I’d say go for it. At times I really wish we’d not paused ttc when I was travelling loads or that we’d started again in lockdown. If you don’t though I’m sure you’ll also have a lovely life with three. There really is no right number of kids or wrong number of kids. It depends on the family. Some are perfect with one and done and some are perfect with 5/6/7+ kids.

I don't know how people do it

We have 2 both work and I'm run ragged!!!!
I envy people who have everything under control

We have 5. I love them all so much but we are poor and tired. And a day out isn't much change from £100 even with a picnic.

I have four, childmind and we foster a three year old as wellI. We think we cope well (hopefully). The house is tidy and hoovered and clean and I make meals from scratch. I love it. I don't feel hassled and stressed. Still get dressed, shower and wash my hair everyday. Still do all the things we want to do. Pricey to get into soft play but don't go there much anyway as DFC has high complex needs and it's unsuitable.

Sounds like great fun to have lots of kids but I am in awe of the financial commitment and logistical challenges!

How do parents (of big families) cope if one or more child gets involved in sport at a high level? All the evening training and traveling to competitions across the UK?

Also wonder how do you afford university for 4 + kids ?!

I had 4 in seven years ( not entirely planned) and the early years were pretty awful and I don't remember much of it. Not helped by having to work around each other as we couldn't afford childcare. It was all very stressful. Now they are older ( early twenties and late teens) we are struggling to afford potentially 2 at Uni. Ds1 has bene through Uni, Ds2 did not go to Uni, Ds3 currently at Uni and DD probably going next year and it's a scary prospect financially the thought of having 2 at Uni at the same time. We don't have a mortgage any more but if we did we would be really struggling. I can't really say i regret having them as they are all delightful but if I had my time again, lets just say I would be a bit more careful !

We have 3. We’d both love a 4th but a) I have awful pregnancies which basically put me out
of action for 9 months, b) DH has to travel a lot for work and we have no family nearby to help so it does often fall to just me, c) we want the kids to go to private secondary and that is going to be a stretch for 3 let alone 4.

I don’t find myself at all run ragged by 3 and I think another wouldn’t change that. But the sport question is a really good one. At the moment DC1 and DC2 both train several evenings a week for their sports. DC3 now asking to start a sport and I am really really struggling to find a class that he can make given sibling commitments!

It depends on circumstances - especially how much money, space and support you have. Money especially.

I have 3, a full on job and no family support. It is bloody hard and I wouldn't have a 4th. I am lucky in that I earn well, but I have no emotional or mental capacity left over.

I have four. Expecting our fifth and I’m sure I’ll have more after that. I truly love it. I don’t feel any more exhausted or run ragged than I did with one. Sometimes we have a hard day here and there with sickness or other unusual circumstances but overall no, it’s really good.

Great for you.

The point was we post through the lens of our own experiences and that of my in-laws is no less valid than yours.

Ultimately there are some facts.

The more children the greater the cost and the less (unless very wealthy) you can spend on each child.

The more children the less time you can spend with them individually.

Some children thrive as being part of a larger family, but some don't.

As a parent I question (because of the experiences of my in-laws) why you "need" to have a large family because through my lens it's rarely beneficial to the children, in fact the reverse (especially to the elder siblings).

I think how people reflect on being part of a large family totally depends on their parents.

My mil was one of 15. She’s one of only 4 of them that had less than 4 children.?She had 2 children, but that wasn’t through choice. She couldn’t have any more after BIL and was devastated. Of the other 3 one had me child with a serious disability and didn’t have more. The other two were men who were committed bachelors and never had children. One of her siblings had 11 children. Mil and her siblings all talk fondly of their childhoods and it sounds like her mother was just someone with endless capacity.

My late FIL was one of 9 and he and his siblings were very split. The elder ones all had multiple children and talked of good memories. However, the younger ones don’t. That I believe is because their father lost his job after an accident and the money that gave the elder ones a good life when young wasn’t there. FIL’s mother is still alive and she has said a few times that young women (anyone under 70 is young to her!) are lucky because of contraception now as she shouldn’t have had her last 3/4 as they couldn’t afford it, but it couldn’t be stopped.

FIL felt his parents, his father in particular, were irresponsible to have so many in their situation.

We have 5 . Eldest is now 20 and then all the others two years younger. Youngest is 12 .
It was mad when they were small but fine now they are teenagers . They are just such good fun. I love the fact we can ski together , do theme parks etc. and we all enjoy ourselves . They are super company and get on so well.
I think organisation is the key . We eat meals at certain times , all very routined. They all share chores and always have as I believe we all live here together and need to contribute .
They all have music lessons, sports , whatever they wanted to do .
The only negative I suppose is financial . They do cost a lot and we spend eye watering sums of money on food, activities, holidays .

Will let you know after Tuesday OP. 😅

I have 2, one is autistic, if I'm honest it's really, really hard work, he's 16 now, I'm waiting for it to get easier

Having 4 IS idyllic and fun but probably only because they are kind and helpful to me and to each other. For example, when I come home from work, my youngest son who is 16 and comes home earlier than me ( from school), will make me a cup of tea knowing I'll be tired out.

There is always someone to talk to and do things with, to cuddle and have a laugh with.

We didn't have much money when they were younger as I was SAHM so we we were very frugal but there's nothing wrong with living like students, things we did then like getting discounted veg from the supermarket, and shopping in charity shops we still do now and is some habits my older DC have adopted now they are students, I have a19 year old and 21 year old and the oldest is working aged 25.

We have always had many animals and each of them have taken on the responsibility for one or 2 which also is an excellent way to teach DC about discipline and responsibility for others.

We keep poultry because my ds was interested at an early age ( about 8) so he hatched some eggs that a friend got him and had the responsibility of looking after them before and after school and it has been a fantastic life lesson.

We have all learned to make pasta with the eggs and do a lot of home made baking and all of us like trying new recipes, growing our own herbs and fruit etc.

We have always had a house full of their friends wanting to stay here and try their hand at making things, a lot of the time because they don't get the opportunity to do these things at home. Everyone is always welcome.

We don't have anyone behaving in a disrespectful or selfish way so no one would leave food wrappers or dirty dishes or dirty clothes lying round.

I read a Montessori book when I had my first DC which said that if you teach young DC to put things away like toys before getting a new one out and having child reach hooks to hang up their clothes etc then you can teach the basics at the same time as potty training and teeth cleaning, basically so that it becomes automatic from a very early age and they won't think even about. So that it will stop parents having to nag them endlessly growing up.

Let me tell you now that it works!! 😃

3 of mine did a sport to a high level and so the running around was mainly done by my DH and shared the driving with other parents.

My DH actively chose to be a hands on dad because he didn't have a good role model from his own dad and stepdad and so he turned down jobs that were more lucrative but would have taken him away from the family.

Likewise, I didn't have a good role model for a mum as she was irritable all the time so I wanted to be the loving mum I didn't have.
.
At the end of the day, I believe you reap what you sow and it's not all about you, or having lots of money ( we didn't) t's about your partner and your environment and your character, mindset and lifestyle choices.

Having a sense of humour is a key prerequisite too 😃

*Great for you.

The point was we post through the lens of our own experiences and that of my in-laws is no less valid than yours.

Ultimately there are some facts.

The more children the greater the cost and the less (unless very wealthy) you can spend on each child.

The more children the less time you can spend with them individually.

Some children thrive as being part of a larger family, but some don't.

As a parent I question (because of the experiences of my in-laws) why you "need" to have a large family because through my lens it's rarely beneficial to the children, in fact the reverse (especially to the elder siblings)*

Right... So your in laws didn't like being in a larger family. Plenty of people do.

Money-wise I do think people should have the amount of children they can afford if at all possible. Circumstances can change of course.

I actually spend more time with all of my children, and use less paid childcare now that I have 3, than I did with my 1. Also they spend time with each other, which gives them something different but valuable. It was the same when I was growing up. I was lucky to be in the middle of 5 and always had a friend in the house.

I'm sorry your in-laws didn't enjoy it, but that is just them. That's informed your opinion.

@FoodieToo skiing holidays for 5 kids must be extortionate. Did you go on abroad holidays every year? I'm assuming you have very highly paid jobs? (Not expecting you to tell me what you earn).
I'm interested as we love holidays and sacrificing holidays is actually something I'm not sure I want to do. I'd like to still be able to do one abroad holiday a year. So far we haven't been abroad with them but that's mostly due to their ages and pregnancies etc. People keep telling me how extortionate and impossible it will be with 3 or 4 kids! I did have a quick glance at the prices recently and have to admit it was slightly eye watering!

I have four and love it! Would like a 5th but I am 37 now so getting on a bit. I love having a busy house and wouldn't have it any other way.

We do have a high house hold income though (£180k) so we can afford holidays, a big house, private school etc. And I was a SAHM until they all went to school so I don't feel they missed out on time. My husband is very hands on too and home all the time so we love our set up.

If you can afford it, fine. If you like lots of kids around, fine.

To me though, if you choose to have more than 3 kids, you can't really moan that you have no money or are run ragged and have no time for yourself.
You chose to have them all, after all.

@Peppadog we were looking at holidaying in France by getting the Eurostar and driving and staying in a self catering place. Actually about the same cost as a uk based holiday but just the extra of the Eurostar. Obviously holidays involving flights are very expensive so we won’t be doing those every year but will save up for one every couple of years with a more reasonably priced trip to France alternate years.

No. Think about when they are teenagers. How expensive that is. You can't help them financially when there's that many. Driving lessons and cars etc you aren't just having a baby you are having an adult aswell.