to point out that one Y chromosome does not make you a male

[Nimbostratus100]

In response to other posts insisting that one genetic test and one Y chromosome makes an athlete indisputably male with no room for error, I just want to point out that it not true.

There is always genetic exchange, for example, between a mother and baby, so anyone who has had a son will still have Y chromosomes in some cells in their body, and that will possibly show up in a genetic screening.

I am all for keeping men out of women's sport, and defining them genetically, but please lets not go over the top - one test does not prove you are male

Do you know what “crack on” means? (Clue: it doesn’t mean “fuck off” or anything else remotely aggressive)

What basis do you have for predicting that GC women will react with aggression and hatred to any (incredibly rare) biological females idenfied as having y chromosomes?

Because men keep pretending to be women.

no, they are two completely different scenarios using the same procedure

"forensic" means related to crime.

A forensic science technician may have a sample of cells from a doorhandle and be analysing them to try and identify who has touched the door handle

Someone in sports screening will be using a similar procedure to analyse cells taken from an athlete

In neither case can it be assumed that the individual that the cells came from is male, just because Y chromosomes are found

Elite Athletes are constantly tested for doping, they have to wee in a pot while a doping agent watches!

Chromosomes will be looked at in blood & saliva tests for doping anyway (they have to check the sample against the athletes DNA on record to make sure it’s not a mix up or a deliberate substitution).

Chromosomes are just tightly coiled strands of DNA - whenever your DNA is tested, your chromosomes will be noted 🤷‍♀️

The vast, vast, majority of elite female athletes will not have given birth at the start of their career (when they’re likely to be first tested).

And if they HAVE given birth then the tests are unnecessary.

Well ok that's fine but I still don't understand why that means the testing is unreliable or that they would be working with a few cells on a door handle?!

😂"aggression"

Putting talk of random cells with a Y chromosomes aside, what would the classification of someone with XY chromosomes and CAIS be? They are genetically male but are completely insensitive to testosterone so appear female.

Hate and hostility? Love the hyperbole. All you've had is a lot of people going eh? Because you aren't making sense.

pregnancy is just an example, there are other ways to swap genetic information, including male vanishing twin, sex with a man, abortion or miscarriage, etc.

And testing will be for everybody, because you cant insist on it for some, and not for others

A particularly "blind 'em with science"-y version of the univariate fallacy, this.

ok, if I misread your tone, sorry, but it did come across as if it was trying to score points somehow, when we are on the same side

no, they are two completely different scenarios using the same procedure

"forensic" means related to crime.

A forensic science technician may have a sample of cells from a doorhandle and be analysing them to try and identify who has touched the door handle

Someone in sports screening will be using a similar procedure to analyse cells taken from an athlete

In neither case can it be assumed that the individual that the cells came from is male, just because Y chromosomes are found

I'm aware of what forensics is. I'm not stupid.

But your equating 2 types of testing as one of the same thing.

A forensic scientist is testing a sample blind - because they have no idea who the person is that touched the door handle. They are investigating the crime.

A lab technician will be testing a sample blind (if what you say is true.) however - the person who requested the sample isn't blind to the physical characteristics of the person they've requested the sample from.

If they have a mother who's birthed a son in front of them they will know it's a woman. Being it only woman that can give birth. And they don't just rely on x and Y chromosomes in sport anyway. Testosterone levels play a huge part.

Even woman competing as woman have to have levels of testosterone below a certain level. Hence the blind drugs testing they do. The person ordering the test may know they have a woman in front of them - but that woman can fail the testosterone levels test due to synthetic hormone taking.

Doesn't stop them being a woman. Bans them from competing as one though.

Also a geneticist, can also confirm that this isn't how it works

Me too! Strangely, I found my ability to run competitively diminished after carrying around 3 massive babies for 27 months and spending 3 years breastfeeding 😄

Still, I'm sure there are elite athletes out there who have managed to squeeze out 4 sons before the age of 30 who are still competing and will be glad the OP is pointing out that they are definitely not male just in cases a solitary Y chromosome shows up in their testing.

I'm sure this will be a useful gotcha for male athletes, with male physiques who are wanting to compete in women's sport - I can just see Lia Thomas saying, no I'm not actually a man, I've given birth to a son and that's why I switched from men's competion a couple of years ago. And I'm sure it will instantly earn them everyone's respect, instead of people seeing them as mediocre males who can't hack it in men's events.

When I started studying maths, I was given a (very old) book called "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" - It was about how statistics are used to bend the truth in politics, marketing and advertising....

It was a fascinating book that you would do well to read.

The key word you are missing here is "MICRO".... You are bending the truth to suit a narrative that just isn't true....The odd Y chromosome could be in an XX chromosome person if they have XY babies, and yes they might possibly be in one of the cheek cells BUT it is such an infinitesimally small number compared to the XX as to be utterly irrelevant.... We are not frogs, no one is switching sex.

This thread is funny. The premise that a mother, who has carried a baby in her womb, birthed the baby through her vagina must be a male because of 1 cell of y chromosome out of how ever many thousands, is frankly laughable.

It shouldn't be though, because currently we are expected to believe that a male bodied person with a penis and no womb, with many xy chromosomes and cells, with large muscle mass and high testosterone is female.

Both are frankly ridiculous. I don't get a feel of aggression from this thread, just disbelief that anyone would actually think that a biological mother could be a male.

This worries me.

Do you mean you are on a course and you have just learned about microchimerism?

sure, but it is not always possible to prove, is it, and people do lie.

Are you going to say any athlete can enter the woman's game, if they claim to have given birth in the past?

Look at the logistics of it! All anyone would have to do is make that claim, free pass to woman's sport!

anyone who has had a son will still have Y chromosomes in some cells in their body

It IS definitely true that a lot of people who have had a son will still have Y chromosomes in cells throughout their bodies for the rest of their lives - around 50% of them, in fact....

Really interested in this Op @Nimbostratus100

If you’ve had a son and have these chimera cells, does it make any difference to you? Hormonally or in any other way?

I'm with you on that! Seems clear cut!!

It makes you seem like a lunatic #sorrynotsorry. As someone else said the cock and balls plus the Y chromosome is enough for me to keep a man out of women’s sports. In fact having or having ever had a cock and balls is enough for me, I don’t require the chromosome testing. Eunuchs are still men 🤷‍♀️

because having the Y chromosome in your body does not make you male, which is the point of this thread - tackling this ignorance