to point out that one Y chromosome does not make you a male

[Nimbostratus100]

In response to other posts insisting that one genetic test and one Y chromosome makes an athlete indisputably male with no room for error, I just want to point out that it not true.

There is always genetic exchange, for example, between a mother and baby, so anyone who has had a son will still have Y chromosomes in some cells in their body, and that will possibly show up in a genetic screening.

I am all for keeping men out of women's sport, and defining them genetically, but please lets not go over the top - one test does not prove you are male

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Excellent point well presented 👏

🙌

Yes but I'm pretty sure the penis and testes alongside that Y chromosome are a pretty big indicator.

😂

whats your point?

Forensic scientists may be working with a few cells on a door handle - dont you understand that?

But if there’s any doubt, they’ll just test again won’t they?
So what’s the problem?

Let's be frank here, you can test all the dna you like, but your eyes will tell you what you need to know.

Someone who has a random Y floating round because they had sons is still going to look female because they are female.

Transwomen simply do not pass for women. Ever.

What??
what does a door handle have to do with genetic testing of athletes who are believed to have a Y chromosome?

The levels of hostility and ignorance on this thread is exactly what I am talking about.

This just makes woman who are defending womans rights look aggressive, and stupid

How does that help?

Sorry, you think elite sports organisations trying to determine the sex of a woman who has been pregnant in order to see if she is eligible to compete (already absolutely not something that is ever going to happen, but I recognise we must make provision in the rules for all eventualities) will be working with door handles?

Who is saying they would only test one sample? That's bullshit. They test multiple swab sites. Are you seriously trying to tell me that every single epithelial cell in my body is now XY because I have had 3 sons? Rubbish. And there has been no proof that the fetal stem cells invade tissue then replicate anyway, they're largely detected in the mother's circulation. Not to mention that any athlete can presumably request a re-test if they show up as male. Which they wouldn't anyway as genetic testing results are given in percentage terms, so mine would be something like 99.9999% XX and 0.0001% XY, or whatever, as you well know as a geneticist. This isnt the gotcha you think it is, but I am encouraged to see TRAs resorting to actual human biology to try and prove that men can be women, or women men in my case!

Right, but no one is testing women who have recently given birth to male babies for microchimerism are they? That's a very small and specific incidence where a biological woman might have a Y chromosome and is completek

*completely irrelevant to the issue. Stop being goady.

This largely comes down to DSDs/intersex and, as they’ve asked specifically not to be included in trans arguments, that part should probably be dropped. DSDs will always be present in sexually dimorphic species.
Those people arguing that pregnancy renders the argument moot should probably be made aware that microchimerism can appear in utero due to the presence of a male twin, although it’s rarer.
As for testing, surely the solution is to take two swabs from very different body parts. If the first swab is inconclusive then process the second swab?

because much of the process is the same, in both cases, the technician has a small cell sample, with no knowledge of who it has come from and are testing it to make deductions.

Finding a Y chromosome is not enough for either the forensic investigator, or the athletic screener to deduce the sample has definitely come from a male

Nor, frankly, do the 42XY athletes who have been winning women's sports. I acknowledge that masculine women exist and are 100% women but caster semenya, dutee chand and Margaret wambui have male physiques. It's quite clear they have male levels of testosterone impacting their physical development.

exactly what I am saying, two tests may be needed, lets not respond with aggression and hostility to someone who doesn't get a clear answer first time- that is all

And I suspect, for cost and time reasons, the two tests are unlikely to be done simultaneously.

They're not looking for one Y chromosome! They're looking for a Y chromosome detected in 99.999% of cells!

Forgive my ignorance, but could this happen when the mother loses a baby in early pregnancy? Or does the mother have to carry them for some time before it can happen?

If a single DNA test isn't enough to keep women's sports for women, then what else could be done?

Honestly, we aren’t the ones looking stupid here.

Why would the technician have no idea where the sample has come from?
im trying to follow your argument but really struggling here. Are we still talking about testing specific athletes believed to have 46XY DSD?

The whole point of blind testing is the technician does not know who the test comes from, or what they look like.

In the future, all athletes will be tested or none, you cant test only people you dont like the look of

lets not respond with aggression and hostility to someone who doesn't get a clear answer first time- that is all
You are preaching about and accusing people of something that hasn't happened 🙄

It sounds like you’re really concerned that mothers might be accidentally excluded from elite athletic competition. Is that your main worry here?

testing HAS to be done blind, drugs testing, genetic testing, all of it. That is a basic principle of fairness