to point out that one Y chromosome does not make you a male

[Nimbostratus100]

In response to other posts insisting that one genetic test and one Y chromosome makes an athlete indisputably male with no room for error, I just want to point out that it not true.

There is always genetic exchange, for example, between a mother and baby, so anyone who has had a son will still have Y chromosomes in some cells in their body, and that will possibly show up in a genetic screening.

I am all for keeping men out of women's sport, and defining them genetically, but please lets not go over the top - one test does not prove you are male

This thread is starting to remind me of the bit in the Father Ted raffle episode, where Ted feels the need to announce very clearly at the start that it does sometimes happen that the organisers will win the raffle - before the point that he made turns out to be very convenient for what happens next.

They won't be testing chromosomes based on the basis of how the individual presents any more than they only test athletes who look stoned

Oh you think we'll all be up in arms because someone who is a woman is competing as a woman but may have a stray Y chromosome.

For the love of god. Give us some credit.

We have an issue with males, penis and testosterone made males want to say they are a woman and compete in the woman's category.

I am not a geneticist (I do have Higher Biology, if that helps) and I'm finding this thread a bit bonkers. Who are these "people" the OP thinks believe that a single test, which finds a single cell, that contains a Y chromosome is enough to say "You're a man, on your crossbarred bike, mate"

I just can't see that happening in the real world.

it is happening, that is why I am trying to explain the science to people a bit more. It has happened to a friend of mine, and it is very distressing

What has happened?

The problem is the attitudes of some women, who dont really understand the genetics, reacting so angrily to athletes who need more than one test.

Partly in answer to a previous question - those people would not be who the OP supposes - women with a few XY cells from a pregnancy. They wouldn't fail the initial test.

But this scenario would apply to CAIS athletes, who do truly have (~100%) XY chromosomes, but who are not restricted in the rules. The rules deem that XY chromosomes with complete testosterone insensitivity is a small enough advantage to compete as female.

But I still believe the "reacting so angrily to athletes who need more than one test" here is a strawwoman being attacked. Who's doing this?

what is it about this science that you find funny?

Yes who are all these stupid women that don't understand genetics. Show us the evidence that loads of women (or men) have been going around saying this:

*The problem is the attitudes of some women, who dont really understand the genetics, reacting so angrily to athletes who need more than one test.

People simply need to understand that sometimes women are found to have Y chromosomes in their bodies*

You've made it up haven't you? I'd be appalled if anyone did one test for anything. Repeatability is a pretty basic prereq that anyone who has been to school and done GCSE level science would know.

Who knew that I would forget the contents of my 4 year degree in molecular biology and genetics once I'd had sons eh?

But I still believe the "reacting so angrily to athletes who need more than one test" here is a strawwoman being attacked. Who's doing this?

To be fair, if OP thinks the commonly-used phrase "crack on" is aggressive... 🤷🏻‍♀️

They won't be testing chromosomes based on the basis of how the individual presents any more than they only test athletes who look stoned

Well no.

But they also won't be disqualifying athletes who have a stray Y chromosome on the basis they are male either.

That's the point isn't it.

And they do know where the samples come from even if the lab testing do it anonymously.

You get the results of your own urine sample returned to you and there's an appeals process. My ds is in elite sport.

no, concern over them facing hatred and aggression, and accusations and suspicion that is totally unwarranted

What is your actual point?

OP, I just don't see why this is an issue.

I mean, surely most reputable medical or sports testers would test more than once, especially if there was any doubt whatsoever, and they would not release the results, or even the fact of needing to test twice, to the public. Due to patient confidentiality.

Take the Semenya case: most of the women on this thread do not accept that she should be competing with women. But most of them would accept that the IAAF massively fucked up by not having tested her before she became so famous and having released the fact of the matter that she was going for genetic tests to the general public. Tests should be done in privacy, with the outcome of those tests handled sensitively (but with respect for biology and fairness to all).

Why would anyone even know that someone had a rogue Y chromosome and there was a need to repeat a test? How would any of the uppity women you are calling out on this thread even know that extra testing was taking place?

because it happens

Exactly.

Apparently trying to tell all is woman how we'd react to a stray Y chromosome and is saying we wouldn't react that way - makes us aggressive.

The irony on another woman trying to say how other woman think and silence them is lost on the OP.

This just makes woman who are defending womans rights look aggressive, and stupid

You're a geneticist, you say?

The can start by simply observing their penis and that would provide confirmation in 99.99% of cases. And if you think that is invasive then you have no idea how drug testing in sport works.

Who knew that I would forget the contents of my 4 year degree in molecular biology and genetics once I'd had sons eh?

@SmartHome Didn't you know that The Science says that you pushed your brains out along with the placenta?

testing is blind

I mean, surely most reputable medical or sports testers would test more than once, especially if there was any doubt whatsoever, and they would not release the results, or even the fact of needing to test twice, to the public.

Yes, I'm struggling to see what the scenario is where "we've tested someone once, got a 'potentially male' result and we are performing more tests" becomes public.

What has happened?

If the argument is "they shouldn't publish inconclusive results", then I think everyone here would agree with that, right?

Sorry back on the tangent of individuals with CAIS, I’ve always imagined they wouldn’t be very good at sport generally at an elite level, as testosterone is so closely linked to sporting prowess….. I haven’t looked into it at all but that was just my initial gut feeling. Am I wrong?

So OP your friend has tested as Male but is actually female? Not intersex?