Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was IBU? Train give up seat for a child situation

369 replies

FriendsObsessed · 05/04/2023 19:09

So I was on the way home today. Busy train, full of commuters.
i managed to get a seat, one of those 3 that are on the side of the carriage and can be flipped up if needed.

An older couple got on with their (I assume) grandchildren.
The women next to me offered her seat to one of the kids. The grandfather came back saying at yes if they could sit together that would be lovely (keeping eye contact with the woman). She was like ‘I can only offer you my seat’. I didn’t move… he sat down with the child on his lap.

someone else got up and offered the seat to the other child. Same thing happened the grandmother sat down with the other child on her knees (kind of)

i tried to just chill (as I always do on the train) but I kept feeling very uncomfortable and sensed a bit of a death stare. The kids were pretty annoying, and weren’t told to just sit and keep kicking other people’s bags, seats and stop complaining. When I got off the train I could hear the grandfather saying, now you sit here finally.

I’m just so annoyed at folks travelling on train with kids expecting that others should move/give up seats for them. AIBU?

ps the children were approx 4 and 6 yo

OP posts:
Obki · 06/04/2023 13:06

Kanaloa · 06/04/2023 13:00

You think she said they kicked other people’s bags but she actually meant they kicked her bag? If they kicked her or her belongings of course that’s unacceptable and she should have probably clarified that. It still does not mean she was expected to give her seat up for a child though.

Show quote history

OP said "The kids were pretty annoying, and weren’t told to just sit and keep kicking other people’s bags, seats and stop complaining."

So it reads as if OP is listing instructions that the DGPs could have given their DGC - i.e. kids weren't told to stop kicking other people's bags. So other people includes OP.

I agree with OP that she was expected to give up her seat. If the DGPs had behaved normally I doubt there would be a thread.

Kanaloa · 06/04/2023 13:16

Obki · 06/04/2023 13:06

OP said "The kids were pretty annoying, and weren’t told to just sit and keep kicking other people’s bags, seats and stop complaining."

So it reads as if OP is listing instructions that the DGPs could have given their DGC - i.e. kids weren't told to stop kicking other people's bags. So other people includes OP.

I agree with OP that she was expected to give up her seat. If the DGPs had behaved normally I doubt there would be a thread.

Show quote history

But she didn’t say they kicked her, or her seat, or her bag. And yet she does use direct language when she felt the grandfather ‘jostled’ her. So presumably she would use the same direct language if she felt she was being kicked.

And it doesn’t really matter if you and the OP ‘feel’ she was expected to give up her seat. Attaching thoughts and feelings you have decided other people have to them is usually a bad idea. They did not ask for her seat. She did not give up her seat. At no point was she expected or did she give up her seat for a child.

Katrinawaves · 06/04/2023 13:19

The grandfather announced passive aggressively to the carriage at large when the woman sitting next to OP offered her seat that it would be lovely if the whole family could sit together…

Seems pretty clear to me that he wanted to the OP to feel that she should offer her seat to the children!

Swiftbushome · 06/04/2023 13:21

"Sparkletastic · Today 12:58
Katrinawaves · Yesterday 19:21

I might have called them out on their rudeness. Something along the lines of “I was brought up to believe that children of that age should offer their seats to adults not the other way around. Please could you ask your grandchild not to kick my bag in that way”. Depending on how shirty I was feeling after a long day at work.
I'm with you."

Why? What is the logic here? Why should a child give up their seat to you just because you are older? Are you a more important human being then them?
Obviously they shouldnt kick your bag. And I'm not saying you need to give up your seat, that's up to you. But why should a child give up theirs for an adult?
I would never ask my kid to stand up for an able adult. Why should they? I might have them sit on my lap if they were small enough but otherwise unless there is a reason you can't stand (in which case I'd offer you mine, not theirs), then no.

Betaalpha · 06/04/2023 13:24

Obki · 06/04/2023 12:50

Grin

So an adult needs to get up so you can cuddle your child?

Ridiculous.

Show quote history

well your ridiculous is my standard. I would do it for others. I disagree, think this is good manners, and don't care what you think tbh...

Cam22 · 06/04/2023 13:27

JaneFondue · 06/04/2023 09:41

You have a problem.with sticker books on a train? Sorry you sound v difficult. They are little kids. Let them sit down and read

Don’t be silly. The children and their wretched “sticker books” were being very annoying in this horrendously busy space.🙄

Looks as if you are joining in to try and rubbish the OP. Oh - and the dear old grandad was being very passive aggressive with his daft comment.

Original poster
FriendsObsessed · 06/04/2023 13:29

Oh no, okay this is not what I wanted really…

i feel like there is a lot of bit picking towards me, commenters who agree with me, and the ones that don’t too.

i just have to clarify I didn’t see red, there was no major inconvenience and no big issues. I just found myself in this situation and wanted to see what other think.

just to clarify, when I say they were running up and and down, I mean they were going up and down pushing(I don’t know if I can say that cause I will be accused how a child can push adults) their way through from one GP to another. They were in some ways in the same space. One GP sat beside me on the 3 flip up chairs by the side or the carriage the other one day across from us travelling facing backwards

before someone asks why I didn’t swap seats, I can not bear bear travelling facing backwards.

there is a bit of a misunderstanding. The GF next to me was totally capable to have the child on his lap. And there is difference between moving and moving and fussing to annoy the person sitting beside you. I tried to close my eyes and just rest but there was a clear message in his body language.

i am not sure what’s right anymore… I don’t think age should be deciding factor on who gets a seat and who not but there is me who worked all day vs a child who can sit on the GP’s lap. Why should I give up my seat?

again, don’t know how much to stress but I am capable to look and understand if anyone requires a seat not taking gender or age into as a deciding factor. Obviously there are occasions when there is a hidden disability etc which is you might not know of.

and again, I’ve been kicking, the guy in front of us was kicked, the person sitting next to the grandmother and probably 1-2 more folks

OP posts:
GonnaGetGoingReturns · 06/04/2023 13:31

GoodChat · 06/04/2023 10:06

the children were not once told to behave as it’s the was a packed train. They were pulling out sticker books and all sorts from the grandparents bags. There is just no room for these in a packed train

There obviously was room if they were able to do it.

I’ve seen adults get out sticker books and other books and iPads/phones with volumes on high, no headphones for children they’re with on a packed commuter train where the journey is 30 minutes to an hour tops. Before you say anything most of the adults were quietly on their phones or reading books/newspapers.

Why can’t the kids have a conversation with their adults, other commuters if they’re up to it, look out of the window, I spy etc? Why books and activities for every journey?

Obki · 06/04/2023 13:32

Kanaloa · 06/04/2023 13:16

But she didn’t say they kicked her, or her seat, or her bag. And yet she does use direct language when she felt the grandfather ‘jostled’ her. So presumably she would use the same direct language if she felt she was being kicked.

And it doesn’t really matter if you and the OP ‘feel’ she was expected to give up her seat. Attaching thoughts and feelings you have decided other people have to them is usually a bad idea. They did not ask for her seat. She did not give up her seat. At no point was she expected or did she give up her seat for a child.

Show quote history

Maybe because they're 4 and 6 OP expected the DGPs to regulate the kids' behaviour but could excuse them being annoying. The DGF was being deliberately aggressive hence the use of the direct language.

It doesn't really matter what any of us think, Kanaloa, everybody's just sharing their opinions.

But 'attaching thoughts and actions' to people based on their behaviour is sometimes necessary. OP felt that she was being deliberately jostled and tried to stay 'chill' to avoid attracting any other negative behaviour from this man. It's likely if she confronted him he would have become belligerent.

Cam22 · 06/04/2023 13:32

Albiboba · 06/04/2023 10:19

@FriendsObsessed the children were not once told to behave as it’s the was a packed train. They were pulling out sticker books and all sorts from the grandparents bags. There is just no room for these in a packed train

You seem to have a very strange perception of what is acceptable behaviour in public! You’re complaining that the grandfather was fidgeting in his seat while holding a child and also whinging about a 4 year old getting a sticker book out! Jesus lighten up. No doubt you would post if they were shouting and tantruming on the train too.

No doubt there will be another weirdo here who will back you up as children aren’t allowed to do anything in public.

The reality is you are the issue.

🙄

CuddlesPleaseTiddles · 06/04/2023 13:42

4 year olds and 6 year olds may have more needs than an adult, able bodied OP. Their behaviour is totally irrelevant to this discussion. would you not give up your seat to a pregnant woman or disabled person if you didnt like their behaviour?
OP, there are children in this world - you are actually on mumsnet - a forum for people with children. I don't know if you have any experience with kids, but they get cranky, tired, and usually would like to sit on trains. Their legs are shorter, for example, so they can't walk as fast or long. When kids are tired they act up (like the kicking or screaming you mention). It is good manners to give up your seat to accommodate for people less able than you - and imho that includes children. I am not talking about for example a 9 year old, but younger than that, usually.

Obki · 06/04/2023 13:42

and again, I’ve been kicking, the guy in front of us was kicked, the person sitting next to the grandmother and probably 1-2 more folks

I suspect @Kanaloa and @SliceOfCakeCupOfTea will now accuse OP of kicking the children Hmm

Obki · 06/04/2023 13:45

Betaalpha · 06/04/2023 13:24

well your ridiculous is my standard. I would do it for others. I disagree, think this is good manners, and don't care what you think tbh...

Show quote history

I disagree, think this is good manners, and don't care what you think tbh...

Devastated Grin

Overthinkingnotdrinking · 06/04/2023 13:50

The entitlement of adults expecting children to give up their seats so they can sit. Pathetic.

Cam22 · 06/04/2023 13:57

Children are pandered to in present times. They are bratty as a result. They should stand.

Cam22 · 06/04/2023 13:59

Anyway, they should not be travelling at peak times when adult commuters are using the service. I’d have thought the mummies would know that.

Naunet · 06/04/2023 14:02

So, it’s not just that they want a seat for their child, they want one for themselves too!! Right CFs, why should anyone else give up their seat for a kid, when the kid’s parents won’t give up their own seats for them?!

coeurnoir · 06/04/2023 14:03

And now I'm an adult, I'm not giving up my seat so a child who is perfectly able to stand or who can sit in an adult's lap can be comfortable at my expense.

Absolutely this. My two were either on our laps or standing close to us, ie within holding on range, if we all had to stand. No way would they have been allowed to take an adults seat.

And no way would I stand for a child to sit.

I do think that some parents of young children are setting themselves up for trouble in the teenage years.

Sceptre86 · 06/04/2023 14:04

If they were 2 adults and 2 kids like on this situation then no I wouldn't have given up my seat. The kids can sit on their grandparents knee. I have kids the same age and it's what we did whenever we got public transport. We have a 3rd child now so when we're on public transport in London dh stood with baby in the pram, I sat down with one of my children on my lap and the other next to me. Noone offered to give up their seat and I wouldn't have expected them to.

Yanbu.

Naunet · 06/04/2023 14:04

CuddlesPleaseTiddles · 06/04/2023 13:42

4 year olds and 6 year olds may have more needs than an adult, able bodied OP. Their behaviour is totally irrelevant to this discussion. would you not give up your seat to a pregnant woman or disabled person if you didnt like their behaviour?
OP, there are children in this world - you are actually on mumsnet - a forum for people with children. I don't know if you have any experience with kids, but they get cranky, tired, and usually would like to sit on trains. Their legs are shorter, for example, so they can't walk as fast or long. When kids are tired they act up (like the kicking or screaming you mention). It is good manners to give up your seat to accommodate for people less able than you - and imho that includes children. I am not talking about for example a 9 year old, but younger than that, usually.

Why aren’t you expecting the adults who were with them to give up their own seats then to let the children sit? They had two seats, they had two children, what they actually wanted was 4 seats because they wanted to sit too.

MereDintofPandiculation · 06/04/2023 14:05

The entitlement of adults expecting children to give up their seats so they can sit If you've been brought up rarely having a seat on public transport because your parents always made you stand for adults (and that was the norm well within living memory) it seems a bit unfair to find that society's view has changed around, and now you're an adult you have to give up your seat to children.

Kanaloa · 06/04/2023 14:05

Obki · 06/04/2023 13:42

and again, I’ve been kicking, the guy in front of us was kicked, the person sitting next to the grandmother and probably 1-2 more folks

I suspect @Kanaloa and @SliceOfCakeCupOfTea will now accuse OP of kicking the children Hmm

No, op has now conveniently added that the children kicked her and were running back and forth in the train that was too packed to accommodate a sticker book. Of course none of us could have known that from the op as it only transpired 9 pages later.

FurryBoots99 · 06/04/2023 14:05

Overthinkingnotdrinking · 06/04/2023 13:50

The entitlement of adults expecting children to give up their seats so they can sit. Pathetic.

Been there
My child is 13 and has dyspraxia, she doesn’t have the balance or core needed to stand on a bus. This isn’t obvious until it’s seen, and I have to support her. I had a bit of a arguement with some fella who demanded the seat from her because he had a heart condition. Plenty other people to demand they get out their seat but I told him strictly she wasn’t moving from her seat for her own reasons I wasn’t going to disclose. He must have thought I was on the wind up, and his attitude only worried my daughter as she has autism and she is so giving, and doesn’t understand her need for safety.

Kanaloa · 06/04/2023 14:07

Cam22 · 06/04/2023 13:59

Anyway, they should not be travelling at peak times when adult commuters are using the service. I’d have thought the mummies would know that.

You sound ridiculous 😂 what hours are children permitted to travel then? Honestly. Oh I’m busy and tired from my big important job! Children shouldn’t be on the train after my work hours!

Obki · 06/04/2023 14:09

Kanaloa · 06/04/2023 14:05

No, op has now conveniently added that the children kicked her and were running back and forth in the train that was too packed to accommodate a sticker book. Of course none of us could have known that from the op as it only transpired 9 pages later.

Show quote history

Well you're consistent at least Grin

OP's first post said it was a busy train and full of commuters.

And it was obvious to rational people that if the kids are kicking than the person sitting next to them will get kicked.