To Message the doc that treated DD

[MisschiefMaker]

Just found the doctors LinkedIn.

AIBU to message her to ask her why she lied to me to get me to agree to give my DD medication that has left her with lifelong damage, when there was nothing wrong with her. I can also include that i pray no other innocent babies are harmed by her every day.

Or should I message her family members instead.

Or just forget about it and move on? She thought she was doing the right thing, after all, and lots of doctors have god complexes.

It could be both. My son was admitted to NICU due to extremely loud breathing after birth. He was given IV antibiotics immediately - I don’t think I even consented to this; they took him away and I couldn’t go with him - my partner did go though so they probably asked him.
They then did a whole barrage of testing on him - blood gases, cultures, x-rays and so on. All whilst actively treating him for an infection for 3 days.
everything came back negative for infection and they decided he was just a bit mucousy. So he was on antibiotics for “nothing” - he had no diagnosis, but received treatment.

I don’t think you’re going to get the advice you need here OP.

I made a formal complaint after DC2’s birth because I wanted to know why everything had suddenly gone wrong. The hospital investigated, found why a crucial thing had been missed, we had a meeting to discuss the measures they’d put in place (change of policy) and that was that. I wanted to know if there was anything to prevent it happening to other women that that was put in place. No one was at fault, I didn’t want to take it further, just to know procedures were changed.

If you feel things have been done incorrectly you need to make a formal complaint. Do not contact the doctor directly - if anything done was amiss they could cover themselves. If you feel your daughter has suffered from potential negligence then personally I’d contact a lawyer.

But if your son had had an infection those antibiotics could have saved his life.

Sometimes in medicine there are potential infections that need treating immediately, and it’s safer to treat as if it is that infection than not.

But they were treating your son based on his respiratory symptoms. Fine, it turned out to be mucus but their concern was probably aspiration which can lead to pneumonia.

The OP saying there was nothing wrong with her baby suggests they were asymptomatic, healthy, thriving etc. I’m sure that wasn’t the case, though.

No, I completely understand WHY they gave him antibiotics, and taking him to NICU for treatment was the right thing. I’d have consented it it had I been with him.

My point was that negative cultures etc doesn’t mean that giving treatment was the “wrong” choice. It means that giving the treatment was the right choice based on information available at the time; even if in future it is deemed to be the “wrong” choice (as was the case in my son, since he had no infection therefore did in essence have unnecessary antibiotics)

Their concern was GBS. Aspiration wasn’t really a concern because he was a planned c section (which means mucus is more likely than a vaginal birth because baby isn’t “squeezed” through the birth canal)

In hindsight there was actually nothing wrong with my son, it sounds like the situation was the same with OPs daughter. The timeline ties in with the timeline of my sons treatment.

For the record they 100% made the right call to treat my son for a possible infection as the risks of not treating were far, far greater than the risks of treating incorrectly.

Go through the proper channels, OP, and get yourself some therapy to help process what happened.
Other posters are only asking for more details about your child's condition because it's easier to advise when we have the full picture and there is potentially a wealth of knowledge out there that some mumsnetters may possess.

Yes, I think it sounds like something similar here.

I had a similar experience with one of mine, IV antibiotics commenced whilst waiting for results.

In 18 years, it's never once entered my mind to consider that the wrong approach.

Yes, it was absolutely the right thing to do, even though with the information they have now it was the “wrong” treatment (as in, he had antibiotics even though he didn’t need them)

The alternative was that he could have NOT had antibiotics that he DID need. Which has the potential to be immeasurably worse.

I don’t think the doctor even explained this to me. The midwives called for a paediatrician really early on (within the first hour) who then took observations and came back several times over the next hour or two. The said that if he didn’t improve by the 6h mark they would take him to NICU for monitoring.

He was monitored in NICU for a few hours with no treatment before they started treating him. They don’t treat for “no reason”

I'm so sorry for what's happened @MisschiefMaker . I really am. And I really feel for you and your daughter. But I can only echo what quite a few other people have said.. It is probably not the best idea to message her.

I don't know if it is already been said, (apologies if it has, I haven't seen it,) but why not write a long letter saying exactly how you feel. Print it out. Just keep it in a drawer somewhere, and don't send it to her. Best wishes. ❤

I'm so sorry. How horrendous.

It's so difficult to navigate these things without the medical knowledge and then when the medics obfuscate and lie it makes it impossible.

Best wishes to your family.

He wasn't allowed in because of Covid. It was 4am I hadn't slept and was making (bad) decisions based on what the doctor said and she was deliberately misleading me.

The reason I emailed was to make sense of that specific thing in the notes where the consultants advice wasn't followed. I just wanted to understand why, I wasn't really looking to get anyone into trouble. The title of the email was "concern about misuse of medication x" (or something like that). I also hadn't ruled making a more comprehensive complaint later, was just information gathering at that stage. Clearly they didn't want to share that information though.

Have you requested counselling for this? Most hospitals have a trained mw who could go through the notes and explain them to you.

Follow up on your previous complaints.

So many vile comments on here. All troll hunting/ claiming OP has an ulterior motive. You all deserve to be banned.

No it doesn't. She said she handed her baby over after a couple of hours and a consultant said to give baby no more medication and they continued to.

Baby's don't get vaccinated so soon after birth. They'd only have one shot of vitamin K at most. This clearly isn't a vaccination thread and she's not answering because people like you will jump on her whatever the medication.

This is a child's life. Not some internet sport for you to practice your mental gymnastics.

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

The reason I asked about the medication, is because I was wondering if OP telling us would prevent the same thing happening to someone else. It doesn't sound like a vaccine thing at all, I can only imagine it was antibiotics? Guessing maybe GBS? Of course OP doesn't have to tell us but it may help stop all these horrible posts accusing her of something that isn't true 🤷

OP,

I think consulting a solicitor who is an expert in medical negligence might be helpful. Probably the path forward starts with an excellently crafted letter to PALS. The solicitor could help with that. If you don’t get a resolution they can help you plan next steps.

I am so sorry for what your family is going through. But I do think part of what you are feeling is the awful, unreasonable inadequacy we endure when we can’t protect our children from unforeseen dangers. We feel that this is our fault when it is not. Counselling can help.

Please, please work within the system. Stalking this doctor or her family or taking matters into your own hands will only make things worse for you and your family. Take care

It was 4am I hadn't slept and was making (bad) decisions based on what the doctor said and she was deliberately misleading me.

Why would they deliberately mislead you though? Struggling to see what the advantage is of deliberately misleading anyone. As I said earlier, you can get things wrong, you may have made different choices with the benefit of hindsight etc, but what advantage is there in deliberately misleading someone?

Because I wasnt allowing them to give the medication to my child. I had some knowledge of it due to a family history problems that are known to be linked to it (but am not a doctor) so I said no initially and gave them my reason.

After I declined care they sent in a more senior doctor who made me believe my baby was dying. She told me it was imperative that she was given it IMMEDIATELY. When I voiced concerns about the medication she said "its safe for the babies because we give it in baby doses." In the medical records this went down as "risks were discussed with the mother. She is very concerned due to past family history."

So I consented to the treatment at that point. For months I thought she'd nearly died. My early months of motherhood were traumatic for that reason (as well as her health conditions which are linked to the treatment and made her a harder baby).

It wasn't until 6 months later I requested her records and showed them to a Cambridge-educated paediatrician friend of mine who helped me understand them.
I learnt:

• she wasn't ill at all, it was pre-emptive care.
• the reason she was admitted was a symptom that is widespread and has loads of other benign causes. I was led to believe she was DEFINITELY DYING because of it.
• because the symptom was likely benign they needed a second "risk factor" to treat her with the drugs she was given. This was never told to me even though I was pestering them for information. I do remember them saying "look, she must be sick because she's so dozy, we can't wake her to feed." This is also in her notes but all newborns are dozy ffs. Then after that she was super energetic crying for food but they didn't change their minds on the basis of that.
• the blood test consistently showed normal results. I had been misled into thinking they confirmed her illness: "the latest blood draw is showing improvement".
• a consultant had said to stop medication at a certain point but it wasn't stopped until later. I hadn't been told this consultants view despite asking every 2 hours "can we stop the medication yet? What are the consultants saying?".

Eventually they stopped medication when they got definitive results that she was fine. I was led to believe they saved her. In actually fact, she was born perfect and they caused her irreparable harm.

If I had trusted my instincts this wouldn't have happened. And you know why it hurts? Because I DID. I told them no. And I only changed my mind after they tricked me by exaggerating how likely it was that she was ill. It was UNLIKELY that she was ill and LIKELY that the medication would hurt her. They pretended she was DEFINITELY ill and the meds WOULDNT harm her. That's why I hate the doctor. She fucked up her risk assessment and railroaded me. I was right all along.

Okay, maybe lose the capitals in your correspondence with PALS. It may just as easily been a case that there was something wrong, and if not preemptive treatment you would have another thread saying no one did anything when they should have. That’s why you get an independent review and feedback. If you believe this, start with a medico-legal service as that would be useful than Mumsnet where we were not there as either clinician or patient.

OP, It does sound like they were trying to cross their 't's and dot their 'i's to prevent you or anyone saying they should've done something sooner if they hadn't taken preemptive care and something went wrong.

Unfortunately they did but something went wrong on the other side anyway.

Gosh OP, your pain is valid. Im so sorry for what you must have gone through and are going through. It does sound like a 'damned if they did and damned if they didn't' case and they didn't want to risk it.

Please don't blame yourself because you listened to the doctors. I doubt it would matter if all went well and I'm pretty sure that was their intention - for the health and safety of the baby.

I can imagine the issue is the exaggeration and not letting you make that decision as to whether you want to risk it or not. But what would you think if you hadn't and something did happen? You'd also blame yourself for not listening.

It's a tough scenario because no one knew how it would turn out and everyone involved seemed to be doing what they believed to be right.

I'm not sure the doctor had a right (or if it was ethical) to mislead you though in order to do this but this is what you'd need to prove and hold against her if you can and if she did. Can you prove she intended to do this?

Does your child have reflux and other dietary issues related to antibiotics used for suspected sepsis?

Okay, maybe lose the capitals in your correspondence with PALS.

Who do you think you are?

OP I'm really sorry that you've gone through this. You know that to do anything you've suggested is unreasonable but I can totally understand why you'd feel like doing this. I don't have any advice but I really do think other posters should respect the fact you do not wish to detail the condition/ medication.

You were misled deliberately by someone in a powerful position to get the outcome they wanted regardless of your concerns, you have every right to pursue a complaint and keep fighting but via the correct routes. I hope your daughter is doing well in the circumstances.