Is Shamima Begum a victim or a criminal?

[ShamimaBegu]

Just listened to the podcasts about Shamima Begum. How can Shamima Begum not be viewed as a victim of grooming and sex trafficking? How on earth would a 15 year old got to Syria without adults making it happen?
She was married off and became pregnant on multiple occasions. She surely is as much a victim as a criminal?

Agreed. She (Begum) was a member of the ISIS morality police - women who went about enforcing ISIS' version of 'morality' on other women and girsl, in between torturing Yazidi women and girls.

Ofcom says GB "News" isn't a news channel so it's not subject to the same rules as actual news channels.

SB was a child victim of grooming and sex trafficking.

That's just a fact.

I think people have their own reasons why they don't see it that way, and I do tend to assume it's racism at worst and ignorance at best.

Brexit's done more harm to this country than SB.

And your source for that is?
We don't know if she was or wasn't - there's just no evidence either way

Well they were tried in a court setting. Trying them in a British court accepts them as a product of our society. And for what it’s worth I think most normal people realise that two children who commit a murder makes three tragedies.

It’s to do with responsibility. It’s easy to say ‘if no country will accept her that’s her fault’ but what you’re really saying is ‘our country doesn’t have to deal with things we can’t be bothered with - an impoverished war torn country will be stuck with her.’

Unless of course you’re proposing we pay for a spaceship to launch her off of planet earth, she will have to live in some country or other. That country should be the one who made her.

She’d be out of her mind to openly condemn ISIL or say they’re bad or anything negative about them on open media, whilst sittting in a refugee camp in the middle of nowhere with no protection.

Im sorry but there's no way she thought ISIS were a utopian community. Beheadings and rape were well publicised and yet off she went.

I am not saying she wasn't aware. But apparently only 10% of their recruitment marketing is about the voilence. The majority is about community, inclusion, purpose etc. Obviously this is coupled with ideology, and joiners will be aware of the violence, but it's packaged up as being about community and purpose. Since the ISIS Caliphate was disbanded people interested in joining have declined massively. Part of that is of course that ISIS isn't doing so well, but apparently a big part of it is considered by experts to be because they are no longer able to offer this community element.

i think that she still doesn't come across as overly sorry or accepting of the situation. Ive seen her interviews and her attitude annoys me .
Criminal.

What a ridiculous reply 🙄 If your 15 year daughter had been radicalised would you be saying the same thing. My eldest two are 14 and 18, I can see how easily manipulated they’d be and how easy it would be to groom them. Your opinion is nothing short of racism tbh

She's both. She's not 15 anymore. There are people who are more vulnerable in the UK and our jail sentences aren't long.

@Rapapampam and as it goes, we’re already paying for child rapists to be housed, for murderers to be held in prison etc, why should Shemima be any different?

I do. Why would the fact she was mal nourished and tired make her say something which isn’t true? It’s a crap excuse. I would imagine in that situation you’re more likely to say it how it is, rather than make up bullshit.

Both. But more importantly she is a British criminal and a British victim.
There are plenty of criminals (rapists, murderers etc) who I would love to be chucked out of the country and become someone else’s problem, but that’s not how it works. Stripping her of her citizenship was a popularity stunt.

Here we go 🙄, that same old lazy argument pulling racism out of the bag when people can’t think of any other plausible reason. She’s a terrorist. No-one believes her bullshit, only the gullible amongst us. Stop making excuses for her. There really are no excuses for the disgusting things her ‘people’ have done.

All our worst criminals were fifteen years old once and the seeds are often sown that early on. Why should we feel more sorry for her than the others. Heck, they were all super cute babes in arms once. Should we let them all go free upon that basis?

And living in a camp with violent ISIS sympathisers.

She’s still there. Have they suddenly become more tolerant?

The majority of criminals in the UK have a less complex psychological profile than her. They are in for drug and alcohol related impulsive and petty crimes. They are capable of being rehabilitated in many cases.

Where is the racism in my post? Would you kindly point it out? I would say the very same thing if she was a member of the white race.

But being a victim doesn't absolve you of criminal responsibility. I think the interviews she gave in the camp after she left ISIS really did transition her from victim to criminal pretty quick in the public's eyes. Yes she was heavily pregnant / had a new born - so can we take her interviews at face value? She was living with some pretty hard liners at that stage so I imagine she was afraid for her safety.

I have listened to the podcast and I'm on the fence. We deport foreign criminals, sometimes ones who has lived here the majority of their life, this isn't something new.

And why is she Bangladesh "problem". I guess our government primary concern is the safety of their own citizens not the citizens of a foreign country

Saying that it is racism driving the decision to strip her of her citizenship means you have to ignore the case of Jack Letts who is of course a white British / Canadian man who was born in Oxford and who was stripped of his citizenship because he had a Canadian father. He had never lived in Canada either.

Same. She slipped through the net. Her friend Sharmima was so vulnerable. She turned to ISIS after her mother died. When she went, the school believed Shamima and her friends were then vulnerable, but the police gave letters to Shamima and her friends for their parents. Surprisingly, they hid them..the police should have done more.

A lot of people do not believe that she was so naive to not know what ISIS did. I disagree, I worked with a girl who started her period aged 15, she did not know what her period was. That's a crazy thing to happen in this day and age..she was silly to go, but I feel she was naive.

The podcast was great, by the way.

Nothing to do with race. If anything people are being softer on her because she's female.

A refugee camp where she feels safe enough to wear European clothes while she gives yet another interview.

I just think that people who fuck up big time imagine that there is a rewind function when life is constantly moving in the other direction. Sje will never be that fifteen year old schoolkid again. She has ordered murders, birthed and buried three children, lived with some of the consequences in trying circumstances.

She was clearly unhappy with British life and values and questioned them enough to make a change which would count as adventurous and self-liberating from her perspective at age fifteen. Though they do not want her, surely Bangladesh would offer less things to hate and if there were any hope for her, she would fare better there than here?