Is Shamima Begum a victim or a criminal?

[ShamimaBegu]

Just listened to the podcasts about Shamima Begum. How can Shamima Begum not be viewed as a victim of grooming and sex trafficking? How on earth would a 15 year old got to Syria without adults making it happen?
She was married off and became pregnant on multiple occasions. She surely is as much a victim as a criminal?

What makes you so sure? - what has John Letts got to do with it? - more than 2 people have had their citizenship revoked, will listing all of them prove anything?

It kind of puts paid to it being because she’s a woman, wouldn’t you say?

If that's your only proof? Not really!!! 😂

Letts also committed violent acts of terrorism and he holds a passport for another country, which doesn't have the death penalty.

Well, our government has decided to never answer the question.

Agreed. And the security services have information about Begum’s activities we’re not party to which helped form the basis for her citizenship to be revoked. To say it’s because she’s a woman is puerile.

I never did say it was because she was a woman. I do think it is in no small part due to the fact that she's from a minority ethnic background.

I'd be cautious of this apparent information held by security services, given that little is known about ISIS actions and participation except where individuals are actually documented in participation.

I don't understand why this is even an issue. Even if she is reformed, which I do not believe is true at all. Weigh up the pluses and minuses. The liabilities greatly outweigh the positives. There's no good reason to let her return to the UK.

So, if that's true, why should she be Syria's problem to deal with?

Does this work both ways? If someone comes here and commits a crime are we happy with keeping them forever if their country decides to strip them of their citizenship, so they become stuck here in limbo? Are we ok with never being able to deport them?
If not we need to be very careful of setting the precedent for other countries to follow.

And actually I think you’ve kind of hit on one of the key points with the mention of liability.
Do I think that in terms of her as an individual stating there it’s safer? Yes. Even if it is seriously questionable morally, for British people (but not Syrians, part of the morality) it’s safer.
Do I believe in the long term and wider context it’s safer? No, absolutely not. I believe it opens a huge can of worms for future dealings with alleged criminals, both here and overseas. I also believe reporters when they say that the camps are a ‘ticking time bomb’ with resentment festering. It was conditions like that after the Iraq invasion that left the door open for ISIS when they arrived promising something better. What we are doing us storing up massive issues for the future.

Do I think the gvt are looking at that? No. They need vote winners now, not in ten years time. Keep her out is an easier sell than “let’s consider the long term security implications.”

You could say that about any British person alleged to have committed crimes. It would benefit us to chuck the lot of them to a poorer country and let them have the problem to deal with.

No you couldn’t because every British criminal isn’t a threat to national security.

Don't recall them threatening to take away Irish Republican terrorist's citizenship and there were plenty who were a threat to national security.

You could still say it’s more beneficial to not have to deal with them. It’s cheaper, less problematic. And most criminal are a liability to someone’s security. Why not wash our hands of the lot of them?

And if she’s such a liability to national security surely it’s best we are in full control of keeping her safely locked up where she cannot pose a danger?

And if she’s such a liability to national security surely it’s best we are in full control of keeping her safely locked up where she cannot pose a danger?

I thought that was precisely what we’re doing. She can’t get onto British soil without a passport and someone paying for her flight.

Locked up, in an appropriate facility, after a trial in relation to her alleged crimes. Not left to roam a refugee camp putting people (of course not British people, so of little importance) at apparent risk, and perfectly positioned to liaise with other people who would be more likely to be sympathetic to her cause.

Both but I believe more or a victim and the fact she is not white she is being treated differently

as are the vast major people who have committed or been involved with committing violent crimes

that she was able to leave the country so easily at 15 needs to be addressed not swept under the carpet

In the past year or so, there is a change of stance from many European countries and they are now moving towards repatriating 'their' ISIS members - Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, even Belgium. Britain is out of step on this

She’s not securely locked up. She’s in limbo in a camp run by Kurdish forces who are actively asking for help. Paid for by a country who are trying to rebuild after ISIS and now an earthquake. Is that as secure as a UK prison because I don’t think so.

She was 16, it’s a bloody good job that we’re not all held to the decisions we made when we were 16!

Admittedly this is a side issue, but where are Shamima's family in all this?
I wouldn't expect to hear from them all the time, but during periods when there's another hearing it's perhaps surprising that there's not much coming from them along the lines of "Please bring her back, we're sure she's learned her lesson"

I don't think it's safe keeping all former ISIS members together like they are doing in these camps. That's giving them the opportunity to regroup.

Surely it would be better to separate them so that they cannot cause any further issues.

It'd be easier just to bomb the camps.

Absolutely disgusting. And here is Shamima being denigrated for responding that she felt the Manchester attack was ‘justified, because it happens here to women and children.’ And your flippant answer to why we should not take our problem back and deal with it is ‘bomb the Syrian refugees, women and kids. They’re not real people like us. They don’t matter.’ How sick can you be.