Is Shamima Begum a victim or a criminal?

[ShamimaBegu]

Just listened to the podcasts about Shamima Begum. How can Shamima Begum not be viewed as a victim of grooming and sex trafficking? How on earth would a 15 year old got to Syria without adults making it happen?
She was married off and became pregnant on multiple occasions. She surely is as much a victim as a criminal?

Sorry I thought we were talking about an ISIS camp. I do not advocate bombing refugee camps.

Please delete my post as it was a misunderstanding. I genuinely did not mean that.

Have you not watched any of the interviews with her? What have you formed your rather harsh opinions on if you literally haven’t seen any? Every one that I’ve seen shows small kids walking around the refugee camp while she speaks. The first one showed her holding her own newborn child.

There are children in those camps!

They are refugee camps but they are filled with ISIS or ex ISIS members.

They can't bomb the camps if there are innocent refugees in there.

But on the other hand I wouldn't let any refugees from those camps into the UK, or into the West in general.

So you thought what? That Shamima was being held in a secure Isis prison camp? So why do you think your opinion is relevant? You don’t seem to have a clue about the entire situation to the point that it’s a huge surprise to you that she is living in a refugee camp.

Criminal. It's her lack of compassion to the Manchester bombing amongst other things that sends alarm bells for me.

There is a rumour she ended her own children's lives.

Mum apparently shared a bedroom with her daughter and was so sure she wasn't involved.

No idea how 15 year olds could leave the country without an adult.

Yes very bizarre the parents aren't on tv or the Bangladesh/Muslim community aren't campaigning for her.

Maybe they are but the British media don't care.

I really think it's brave what the government has done but I'm sure there are plenty of men who have been allowed back.

That isn’t relevant to what I asked. The poster was busy giving their opinions about what we should and shouldn’t do about Shamima, but apparently had no clue she lived in a camp with small children, despite those kids being shown in basically all new coverage about her current situation. But we should ‘just bomb them.’ I think if you have no absolutely clue where she is or what situation she is in to the point that you accidentally suggest bombing innocent children (which Shamima is being denigrated for saying is justified) then you probably don’t know enough about the situation to form an educated opinion.

When I watch that interview, which was conducted as soon as she had surrendered, she appeared to still be indoctrinated with ISIS mentality. If you watch more recent interviews, you can tell she has has completely changed her thought process. She doesn't seem like the same woman who said those things. Also, she was surrounded by ISIS women who would have killed her and her child for denouncing ISIS. That could have potentially played a role.

I just don't think it's black and white.

Bullshit. Nobody would support Samantha Lewthwaite coming back either

That's a terrible thing to say!

It’s also astounding that so many posters just cannot possibly believe that a teenager may have been indoctrinated with false information or just so stupid she went along with atrocities, when one of those very posters is either so very misinformed or so devoid of empathy that ‘just bomb them’ in relation to a refugee camp is an appropriate answer to ‘we should deal with British people who have been accused of crimes.’

@Kanaloa I have to admit that I was uneducated about the story when I first commented on this thread but since then, I've listened to numerous podcasts, watched the BBC documentary and I genuinely believe that she didn't have a clue what she was getting into.

Then when she was already there, there's zero chance of being able to leave and survive so you just do what you can to get through the day.

She has paid a very high price, both friends dead who she went out there with, all 3 children dead, and her former best friend calling her a traitor and apostate.

We also have to bear in mind that she was in a camp filled with ISIS members and her life could've been in danger if she'd spoken against them. In that camp, 4 'apostate' women were murdered in the last month. The camp she is in now is more secure, but it could easily go downhill.

Also, I don't believe she ever supported the Manchester attacks. She said she was shocked and thought it wrong that innocent people get killed, but that children and women were being killed in Baghuz and "that is the justification". She doesn't actually say "that justifies it" - it sounds more like, "this is the way the organisation justifies doing these things" than an indication of personal approval, but not very well expressed.

Interesting that the British government hasn't taken away Sharmeena Begum's citizenship! At least not as far as I'm aware.

@Jourdain11 Yes, when I listened to what she said there, she was saying that's how ISIS justified it, not that she thought it was justified.

I agree regarding the Al Hol (not sure on spelling) camp. She had to be very careful. And a woman had been pulled out of some water beheaded for speaking against ISIS.

Oh I don’t think there’s any shame in being uneducated about something! We all are, aren’t we? In that post, I was more just saying think if you haven’t even watched the news coverage of a situation it’s a bit stupid to be suggesting bombing a country. How does that make you any different to ISIS really? If you think the answer to any problem is to immediately suggest bombing other countries when you don’t even have a clue about what you are talking about, you really can’t claim moral superiority. It’s very telling.

I know this is a bit of a sideline but I find it awful how US led air strikes bombed Raqqa but then have left people to rebuild by themselves, which is a practically impossible task for someone with no money or machinery. No help whatsoever.

I'm glad it's not just me! That was definitely how I heard it, but I also thought straight away, bad choice of words. But also, someone who's been in a place where people are getting killed every day, they're not going to have the same shock in their reaction to a terrorist atrocity in Manchester as someone who hasn't been in that environment.

She's now in another camp (Al-Roj) as she was considered to be at too much risk in Al-Hol. If the ISIS sympathisers want to harm someone for being an apostate, it's probably a reasonable indication that they are not overly extreme in their beliefs...

She's out of the country, and to me, there has to be a very good justification to let her back in, and I cannot see what that could be.

Because she is our responsibility. That’s the good reason. And since you think it’s appropriate to suggest bombing people without even checking who you’ll be bombing, I don’t think your opinion on it is all that relevant to be honest.

...because if she is as dangerous as they say she is, she may well be planning attacks in the UK and beyond.

..because she is a product of British society, born and raised here, as British as you, i, Sunak or Bravermann and therefore our responsibility.

On failing to condemn the Manchester bombing, did people like McGiuness or Adams condemn, 100%, IRA bombings? nope, yet they went on to form the GFA and bring peace to NI.