Page 4 | People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

AlmostaMamma · 2023-03-27T22:27:49+00:00

Has anyone else noticed this? I’m currently extremely pregnant and the comments from friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues regarding having a newborn have been fascinating. “You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.” “Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.” “You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess.” Also lots of stuff about having to deal with everything for the newborn by myself. I have a husband. He’s a competent adult (I wouldn’t have married him otherwise) who is capable of household chores and generally does more of them than I do. This will not change post birth. And, apart from me being the one who breastfeeds, we’re going to be splitting infant care pretty evenly. It’s 2023, so presumably this isn’t a massively unusual state of affairs. So why do people say this nonsense? It was mildly amusing to begin with, but it’s starting to make me tetchy.

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:08

Naunet · 28/03/2023 08:13

Yes let’s blame women for being horrible, rather than considering that maybe, just maybe, men have given themselves this reputation…

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The women are the one making the comments, so yes, I ‘blame’ them for said comments. Nobody has been called ‘horrible’ or anything else, however.

The men who have given themselves said reputation have nothing to do with me, my husband and our childrearing.

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Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:13

Maray1967 · 28/03/2023 08:52

Agreed. Mine was great - over 20 years ago. Sorted out most of the chores in the first couple of weeks. Was able to do his paternity leave in half days after the first 2 or 3 days so stretched it out longer. Cracked on with chores in the morning and sorted lunch - then was out from 1 till 6, then pulled his weight in the evening. I will expect the same from my DSs if they become dads, and if they don’t, I’ll be on their case immediately.

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Lovely lovely MIL, is that you? 😂

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Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:17

BarbaraofSeville · 28/03/2023 09:17

@EssexMamisoa @JenniferBarkley

Well quite, it's shared parental leave and the mothers are still taking the majority and rightly so as they'd still get 9 months, if the father had 3 months PL.

It seems like a lot of women see all the parental leave as entirely theirs to take but surely it would be easier to have equal parenthood if it became the norm for fathers to spend an extended period being the main carer of the baby and were also likely to take a significant chunk of time out of the workplace when they become parents?

This was basically our thinking.

When we’re both back at work, the plan is to both drop down to four days a week, to facilitate long term equal parenting.

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Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:20

@WeWereInParis and @whatkatydid2013 All really great points. Thank you. 🙏🏾

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Littlecamellia · 28/03/2023 11:21

I agree. So many posters on here seem to think that the dad should do an equal share of the housework and childcare, despite working long hours and bringing in the money.

In my day (I'm 70), the dad went to work and the woman looked after the house and children.

I know things have changed since then but it seems to me that the pendulum has swung too far.

MsMarch · 28/03/2023 11:21

Someone literally asked me if he (a 35 year old man) knew how to do laundry properly, yesterday.

This is extraordinarily irritating. It's also a slightly different issue I think. Surely most of these people don't realise but you and your Dh will be at home for 3 months so the comments are based on the expectation that you will be "responsible".

If, however, they know he's at home and they're still surprised he can use a washing machine then, yes, you have every right to be annoyed!

I often talk on here and in RL about how when I was on mat leave and DH was working I would tend to do the middle off the night stuff so DH got a solid chunk of sleep, but he would get up super early if necessary (Ds was not a good sleeper) and then be in charge right up until he left for work - so up at 5am for a feed, maybe snooze with DS until 6:30/700 if he could get him back to sleep, then up. Then, if necessary, take DS into bathroom with him to shower, in a sling while he made breakfast etc. Then a cup of tea for me 15 minutes before he left and, usually, a quick nappy change before he finally tossed the baby at me as he headed out the door.

In real life, when I suggest this to women who are struggling as their DHs apparently need "uninterrupted sleep so they can work" they're always completely gobsmacked that a man could actually look after a baby AND get himself sorted for work (on plus side, at least one woman has subsequently suggested this to her DH off the back of my recommendation!)

Sleepygrumpyandnothappy · 28/03/2023 11:22

BarbaraofSeville · 28/03/2023 07:52

The men who are back at work after 2 weeks only because they've chosen not to take the shared parental leave that they're entitled to.

Fathers don't have to go back to work so quickly, they choose to. Any new father can take the same 12 weeks that the OPs DH is taking.

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If it works for the couple to have to use childcare three months early... Doubling up with SPL is great but it is a zero sum game and means everyone is back to work quicker.

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:22

napody · 28/03/2023 10:03

This is an excellent plan. Wish we had done this. After the shortish cluster feeding period it will stand you in really good stead if DH develops his own techniques for settling baby to sleep. This sounds simple but may not be! Good luck with your newborn, and get used to smiling and nodding to advice and comments.... it won't let up for at least 18 years :)

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Your last sentence made me smile. 😊Thank you!

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surrenderdorothy · 28/03/2023 11:22

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:08

The women are the one making the comments, so yes, I ‘blame’ them for said comments. Nobody has been called ‘horrible’ or anything else, however.

The men who have given themselves said reputation have nothing to do with me, my husband and our childrearing.

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So you blame them - friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues, all, some of whom presumably don't know the stellar standards of your household - for relaying to you what they view as helpful advice from their own lived experience?

Or do you expect them to travel back in time and pick different men? Or to lie to you about their experience, and pretend everything will of course be equitable, because of the magic year 2023?

"The men who have given themselves said reputation" are, unfortunately, not rarities. I can see you run a very tight ship and would never have made such a dubious choice in partner...

When we’re both back at work, the plan is to both drop down to four days a week, to facilitate long term equal parenting.

It will be interesting to see how that actually pans out.

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:25

DoubleChocolateBrownies · 28/03/2023 10:20

In my antenatal group I’ve been very surprised by just how 1950s it all is, with most of the mums complaining all the time (with good reason) about the dads doing sod all or doing things badly because they cba to learn how to do baby things. I’m never sure what to say because if I say “err that’s not normal, my DP is nothing like that so you shouldn’t stand for it”, it comes across, I think, as boasty, and the other mums seem to bond over how useless their men are…

I’m never sure what to say because if I say “err that’s not normal, my DP is nothing like that so you shouldn’t stand for it”, it comes across, I think, as boasty, and the other mums seem to bond over how useless their men are

This is definitely a thing. And I keep quiet as I don’t want to offend anyone, particularly as they are generally genuinely nice women, but it’s a bit of a ridiculous situation.

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Sleepygrumpyandnothappy · 28/03/2023 11:25

surrenderdorothy · 28/03/2023 11:22

So you blame them - friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues, all, some of whom presumably don't know the stellar standards of your household - for relaying to you what they view as helpful advice from their own lived experience?

Or do you expect them to travel back in time and pick different men? Or to lie to you about their experience, and pretend everything will of course be equitable, because of the magic year 2023?

"The men who have given themselves said reputation" are, unfortunately, not rarities. I can see you run a very tight ship and would never have made such a dubious choice in partner...

When we’re both back at work, the plan is to both drop down to four days a week, to facilitate long term equal parenting.

It will be interesting to see how that actually pans out.

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This. The comments the OP is getting are annoying. But the OP is also being extremely annoying with the implication that if other women had just been a bit smarter the incredibly well documented problems we as a society have with the division of labour could be avoided.

jellybe · 28/03/2023 11:29

Totally agree. My DH wasn't/ isn't useless with small babies/ house work/ shopping etc. it also bugs me when people ask if he is 'baby sitting' when I have an evening out without him. No, he's parenting!

However, I did batch cook before having my babies purely so we could both have more time etc. in those early days.

TiredButDancing · 28/03/2023 11:34

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:25

I’m never sure what to say because if I say “err that’s not normal, my DP is nothing like that so you shouldn’t stand for it”, it comes across, I think, as boasty, and the other mums seem to bond over how useless their men are

This is definitely a thing. And I keep quiet as I don’t want to offend anyone, particularly as they are generally genuinely nice women, but it’s a bit of a ridiculous situation.

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I think it's more complex and over time, you will learn that. Your DH might well be amazing and you aren't going to fall into these traps, and if so, I think that's brilliant. But please don't write off the rest of society because it's not always that easy.

DH Was a SAHD for a while. And yet, we still slipped into this ridiculous situation where we'd go out somewhere and he'd be 100% doing his bit and I'd be doing my bit and it was all great, and then we'd walk through the door and it would be like he completely forgot there was still a baby to care for. He'd wander in and go log onto his computer and check some emails or disappear upstairs or whatever. It used to drive me absolutely bonkers. And of course I wasn't silent. But this ingrained societal expectation that women are the primary carers is incredibly hard to shake, even with the best will in the world.

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:35

surrenderdorothy · 28/03/2023 11:22

So you blame them - friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues, all, some of whom presumably don't know the stellar standards of your household - for relaying to you what they view as helpful advice from their own lived experience?

Or do you expect them to travel back in time and pick different men? Or to lie to you about their experience, and pretend everything will of course be equitable, because of the magic year 2023?

"The men who have given themselves said reputation" are, unfortunately, not rarities. I can see you run a very tight ship and would never have made such a dubious choice in partner...

When we’re both back at work, the plan is to both drop down to four days a week, to facilitate long term equal parenting.

It will be interesting to see how that actually pans out.

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Ah, having flounced because I pointed out that my friends and family know what my husband is like, you’ve come back?

So you blame them - friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues, all, some of whom presumably don't know the stellar standards of your household - for relaying to you what they view as helpful advice from their own lived experience?

I ‘blame’ (not my word, btw) the people who are saying things to me for the things they are saying, yes.

Or do you expect them to travel back in time and pick different men? Or to lie to you about their experience, and pretend everything will of course be equitable, because of the magic year 2023?

The men they picked aren’t my problem. Things will be equitable in my relationship because things are equitable in my relationship. And nobody is required to lie about their experience, as I’m not asking. None of this has been solicited information.

The men who have given themselves said reputation" are, unfortunately, not rarities. I can see you run a very tight ship and would never have made such a dubious choice in partner

Again, not my problem. And my choice of partner was excellent. I’m sorry if that winds you up, but it’s the reality. There are lots of fantastic men out there and some of us are married to them.

When we’re both back at work, the plan is to both drop down to four days a week, to facilitate long term equal parenting

It will be interesting to see how that actually pans out.

This is the sort of comment that exudes bitterness. It’ll work out fine, because that is the nature of my relationship. It works out fine for lots of people who have similar setups. As I said to you above, there aren’t any ‘life is great’ posts on MN because it wouldn’t make for interesting reading - that doesn’t mean things aren’t panning out delightfully for a lot of us.

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Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:39

MsMarch · 28/03/2023 11:21

Someone literally asked me if he (a 35 year old man) knew how to do laundry properly, yesterday.

This is extraordinarily irritating. It's also a slightly different issue I think. Surely most of these people don't realise but you and your Dh will be at home for 3 months so the comments are based on the expectation that you will be "responsible".

If, however, they know he's at home and they're still surprised he can use a washing machine then, yes, you have every right to be annoyed!

I often talk on here and in RL about how when I was on mat leave and DH was working I would tend to do the middle off the night stuff so DH got a solid chunk of sleep, but he would get up super early if necessary (Ds was not a good sleeper) and then be in charge right up until he left for work - so up at 5am for a feed, maybe snooze with DS until 6:30/700 if he could get him back to sleep, then up. Then, if necessary, take DS into bathroom with him to shower, in a sling while he made breakfast etc. Then a cup of tea for me 15 minutes before he left and, usually, a quick nappy change before he finally tossed the baby at me as he headed out the door.

In real life, when I suggest this to women who are struggling as their DHs apparently need "uninterrupted sleep so they can work" they're always completely gobsmacked that a man could actually look after a baby AND get himself sorted for work (on plus side, at least one woman has subsequently suggested this to her DH off the back of my recommendation!)

That’s essentially our plan! DH is an early riser, and I generally stay up very late, anyway. We’re hoping things work in ‘shifts’. Glad it worked for you.

And, yup, some of these women (including the laundry questioner) know he’s going to be home for three months.

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Lcb123 · 28/03/2023 11:41

YANBU-I’d hate this. My mum even does it when I’m away travelling for work. saying things like ‘is DH ok on his own’ - ridiculous. He’s an adult.

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:45

Sleepygrumpyandnothappy · 28/03/2023 11:25

This. The comments the OP is getting are annoying. But the OP is also being extremely annoying with the implication that if other women had just been a bit smarter the incredibly well documented problems we as a society have with the division of labour could be avoided.

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I don’t care about the division of labour in their homes, though. I’m not asking or giving them advice about it. It’s none of my business.

If they were to stop the wholly unsolicited (possibly well meaning, but still unwelcome) advice, all stated annoyances would be avoided.

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Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 11:47

TiredButDancing · 28/03/2023 11:34

I think it's more complex and over time, you will learn that. Your DH might well be amazing and you aren't going to fall into these traps, and if so, I think that's brilliant. But please don't write off the rest of society because it's not always that easy.

DH Was a SAHD for a while. And yet, we still slipped into this ridiculous situation where we'd go out somewhere and he'd be 100% doing his bit and I'd be doing my bit and it was all great, and then we'd walk through the door and it would be like he completely forgot there was still a baby to care for. He'd wander in and go log onto his computer and check some emails or disappear upstairs or whatever. It used to drive me absolutely bonkers. And of course I wasn't silent. But this ingrained societal expectation that women are the primary carers is incredibly hard to shake, even with the best will in the world.

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I honestly don’t think that’s going to happen with us, but I take your point. It’s certainly something to think about. Lots of very sensible things to keep track of have been pointed out on this thread, so thank you.

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OMGitsnotgood · 28/03/2023 11:52

Yes it's annoying when people assume that all DHs/ DPs are useless. I remember the first night I had out after DC1 was born people asking me who was looking after the baby!

That said, don't underestimate the impact that little bundle will have on your lives. Batch cooking and stocking up on non-perishables are sensible suggestions. Newborns are way more demanding than you can ever imagine, you'll be tired after delivery and broken nights and he won't be getting unbroken sleep either. Don't ignore suggestions for making life easier for both of you afterwards. I used to look forward to DH coming home from work to take over nappy changes etc, and I felt it far more important that he had time cuddling the baby when he got home rather than popping to the shops or having to cook from scratch. Being able to take a home cooked frozen meal out of the freezer and just microwave was a godsend in the first couple of weeks.

NowThatsWhatICall22 · 28/03/2023 12:08

The post from @Squamata is so spot on. Do come back to this thread after your partner returns to work at the end of those 12 weeks (which will go quicker than any time you’ve ever experienced and be grateful that you’re not looking at just two weeks before you’re left alone, post op and probably without a lovely DM or DMiL on your doorstep for support).
Read your own comments again then and you’ll maybe understand why some folk are pushing back at your initial post.

You’re about to change your lives in such a way that you will look back and crave these days when you were free both mentally and timewise enough to post such a confident message about your relationship on Mumsnet.

Bluevelvetsofa · 28/03/2023 12:16

I agree with @Squamata. It sounds as though everything in OPs world is completely thought through and organised and I’m sure it will be, but babies are just unpredictable.

I do know, that in theory, 12 weeks leave is possible. I don’t think many couples are able to take that time together. I’m sure someone will say it’s not unusual though.

EssexMamisoa · 28/03/2023 12:17

JenniferBarkley · 28/03/2023 09:20

I only took nine months myself, so I'm not speaking personally here, but it's disingenuous to pretend parenting is equal for the first year. The impact of birth, recovery, breastfeeding mean Parent A and Parent B is very natural until past six months at least.

I think the answer is extended use it or use it leave for fathers (or non birth mothers), that can be used until the baby is 18 months.

Reducing maternity leave isn't the answer, which is the ultimate consequence under the current system.

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@JenniferBarkley @BarbaraofSeville

Agree Jennifer. My issue is the BF and going back to work early (albeit only a month in my situation so probably a nil point really) means I have to think about the practicalities of dropping BF feeds while at work earlier than if I hadn’t shared the leave. Of course my baby may not be feeding much in the day by the time I go back to work, or I could express (doesn’t work for me!) but it’s just an added layer both me and DH have to think about when sharing our leave. I’m all for partners having additional time off of course but at the moment it comes with some down sides / things to think about.

Carouselfish · 28/03/2023 12:18

DP was very useful and helpful with our second newborn. With the first he was a bit useless in terms of taking initiative but did everything asked. I think it's fear of doing the wrong thing. And sometimes he did spectacularly the wrong thing ie. Taking her out all afternoon with two full bottles and forgetting to give her any at all. That never happened again!!!
But I was the first idiot to drop her...

JenniferBarkley · 28/03/2023 12:18

NowThatsWhatICall22 · 28/03/2023 12:08

The post from @Squamata is so spot on. Do come back to this thread after your partner returns to work at the end of those 12 weeks (which will go quicker than any time you’ve ever experienced and be grateful that you’re not looking at just two weeks before you’re left alone, post op and probably without a lovely DM or DMiL on your doorstep for support).
Read your own comments again then and you’ll maybe understand why some folk are pushing back at your initial post.

You’re about to change your lives in such a way that you will look back and crave these days when you were free both mentally and timewise enough to post such a confident message about your relationship on Mumsnet.

Exactly.

Like I said, my DH pulls his weight (and of course gets lavished with praise for being able to work the washing machine or care for his children) - but it's still fucking hard, especially if you get a baby that won't be put down as so many of them won't.

The advice you received is useful, practical advice and you would both do well to listen to it.

DH does the cooking in our house but I filled the freezer when I started maternity leave before the baby came and we were both glad of it.

pjani · 28/03/2023 12:23

I would vote YABU actually, because our little one had feeding problems and we were completely overwhelmed with looking after him (breastfeeding, pumping, bottle feeding, baby wouldn't sleep anywhere but on us, baby crying all the time probably hungry poor lamb). It was stressful AF and I was weak from blood loss and we were both unbelievably exhausted after a long labour.

And... we were both totally entranced by our baby and wanted to spend all our time looking at him, holding him, and talking about him!

And most men have two weeks off as you note.

It's well intentioned advice.