Page 14 | People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

susiesuelou · 31/03/2023 10:22

@2023a

Ok, whatevs 😂

I will continue to post what I like thank you, and will not be policed by you.

Have a nice day.

susiesuelou · 31/03/2023 10:25

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2023a · 31/03/2023 10:26

susiesuelou · 31/03/2023 10:22

@2023a

Ok, whatevs 😂

I will continue to post what I like thank you, and will not be policed by you.

Have a nice day.

Grand. I’ll also continue to post what I like.

Have the day you deserve. 😊

TomeTome · 31/03/2023 10:37

@susiesuelou don’t feel heckled off the thread.
……………..

OP feels her husband is being criticised and her choice of husband questioned by these attempts to advise her on things that she feels she has under control. She’s soon to have her first child and for maybe for the first time experience the ramifications of being female. She will not be working, her body has been hijacked by an ever more demanding entity that will hurt her during its birth, has changed her body for life, may damage her irreparably and then is going to change the dynamic in every relationship she ever has and require her to depend on others in ways she may not enjoy. First time parents are always evangelical about their thoughts and sensitive to other’s criticism. They lack an overview because they can’t have one they’ve never done this before.
I think OP sounds really happy in her marriage and like she has planned well for what she thinks is coming. I think it’s highly likely to all go to plan and she’ll still be baffled by why older women are reaching out to her. They’re doing it from a place of love and sometimes from trauma. It can be irritating but it’s a very real and very beautiful part of humanity.

DappledThings · 31/03/2023 10:39

TomeTome · 31/03/2023 10:37

@susiesuelou don’t feel heckled off the thread.
……………..

OP feels her husband is being criticised and her choice of husband questioned by these attempts to advise her on things that she feels she has under control. She’s soon to have her first child and for maybe for the first time experience the ramifications of being female. She will not be working, her body has been hijacked by an ever more demanding entity that will hurt her during its birth, has changed her body for life, may damage her irreparably and then is going to change the dynamic in every relationship she ever has and require her to depend on others in ways she may not enjoy. First time parents are always evangelical about their thoughts and sensitive to other’s criticism. They lack an overview because they can’t have one they’ve never done this before.
I think OP sounds really happy in her marriage and like she has planned well for what she thinks is coming. I think it’s highly likely to all go to plan and she’ll still be baffled by why older women are reaching out to her. They’re doing it from a place of love and sometimes from trauma. It can be irritating but it’s a very real and very beautiful part of humanity.

That's one of the most patronising things I've ever read on here.

susiesuelou · 31/03/2023 10:50

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susiesuelou · 31/03/2023 10:51

@TomeTome

Takes more than that to heckle me anywhere 😂

2023a · 31/03/2023 10:59

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Blossomtoes · 31/03/2023 11:01

Ffs. Get a room. You’re both as bad as each other.

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 31/03/2023 11:02

susiesuelou · 30/03/2023 20:43

OP, I think your thread title doesn't match the comments in your OP.

People aren't saying those things because they're assuming fathers are shit. They're saying them because they know that having a newborn is fucking chaos and makes your life flip upside down and inside out for a good while. So regardless of your partner's competence or otherwise, it can knock literally everything out of whack. Being prepared for that is helpful. I was so pleased I had meal prepped before put baby arrived, as neither DH or I could be arsed with cooking in those first few weeks, we were just exhausted from so little sleep every single night!

My advice: take the advice. You'll be glad you did.

I’m going to copy/paste one of my previous comments that I think addresses this:

’Saying both parents will be exhausted and should prepare for it (great advice) is entirely different from assuming the man can’t cook or do laundry, so the woman should prepare accordingly.’

Honestly, this on repeat to all the people saying it’s good advice. We are preparing for most eventualities (we’re people who like a plan), while being cognisant of the fact that we can’t plan for everything.

Advice to batch cook or stock up on stuff is great advice and very welcome. It’s the ‘as he obviously won’t be able to do XYZ’ and ‘can he do laundry properly’ that has accompanied said advice that’s irritating.

OP posts:

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 31/03/2023 11:03

DangerousAlchemy · 30/03/2023 21:39

If you DH has 12 wks paternity then you have nothing to worry about! My DH went back to work 6 days after our first child was born (19 years ago) & then proceeded to leave house at 7 30 am & arrive home about 6.30/7pm. So yes - I had to do everything on my own & by the time DH got home the baby was fast asleep. So cooking/shopping/cleaning etc were a nightmare in those first few weeks & I did the lion's share during the week. I was up most of the night BF too so was utterly exhausted. People who say having a baby can be split 50/50 between the Mum & Dad are being a bit too optimistic imo especially if the baby is exclusively BF. Good luck though - you'll muddle through like most couples do 💖

Thank you. 😊

OP posts:

DappledThings · 31/03/2023 11:04

Since my original (and only) contribution to OP's opening post was to comment only on the title and the content of the opening post, it remains valid
I don't understand how the content of the first post doesn't match the title.

People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

...lots of stuff about having to deal with everything for the newborn by myself.

I have a husband. He’s a competent adult (I wouldn’t have married him otherwise) who is capable of household chores and generally does more of them than I do. This will not change post birth
All from the first post. All about how people assume her husband won't be doing anything for the family and how frustrating it is that people assume that.

Matches up to me. Yes it also includes some other advice that could be applied to both of them but the post as a whole matches up fine with the title. And the subsequent posts clarify it more.

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 31/03/2023 11:05

Messybessy123 · 31/03/2023 08:26

I know what you mean, and those comments are frustrating. I know being heavily pregnant can be a very delicate place emotionally, but if you can, I'd try to believe those comments are coming from a place of caring - they just want the best for you. And a lot of women from generations before us won't have had husbands who were true partners in child rearing, and so are truly speaking from their own experience.

I think it can be quite hard for them - my mum, for example...I don't think she realised how hard she had it raising 6 children with a virtually non existant husband (breadwinner, working away lots) until she saw how hard I found 2 small children, even with a supportive husband. Its lead to several comments like youre talking about, but more lately after some self reflection, she's realising the reality of her own situation. So although it seems like "I'm lucky," because my husband is supportive, and I'm thinking, "I'm not f%@#ing lucky, I chose him based on these traits"......actually men have changed a lot (still not perfect lol) but the chances of finding a man like how you desribe your DH are much higher now.

I hope that makes sense...my two kids are 3&6 and I'm still hella exhausted!! But good luck to you as you start this parenthood journey with a wonderful, supportive partner! It's certainly given me a new appreciation for people who raise children on their own.

This is really nuanced and makes really good points. Thank you. 💗

OP posts:

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 31/03/2023 11:09

DappledThings · 31/03/2023 09:11

You do sound angry. I don't think I read any posts that said that.
That's literally what the opening post and the whole point of the thread was. Annoyance at the assumption men are shit and should be expected to be shit. It's right there in the title.

Thank you for your contributions to this thread. I think a handful of people genuinely don’t understand what we’re saying. Then there’s one or two that clearly do get and just want a row. 😂

OP posts:

DappledThings · 31/03/2023 11:13

AlmostaMamma · 31/03/2023 11:09

Thank you for your contributions to this thread. I think a handful of people genuinely don’t understand what we’re saying. Then there’s one or two that clearly do get and just want a row. 😂

Show quote history

Agreed!

What used to annoy me was the first few times I was ever out solo on a weekend day or evening (so definitely not a time anyone would assume DH was at work) I would always be asked who the baby was with. It seemed to obvious to me that he would be with DH. I checked with him and he confirmed nobody ever asked where DS was when he was out. Because mother caring for child is assumed, father caring for child isn't. Was very bizarre to me.

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 31/03/2023 11:23

OP I HATED unsolicited advice when I was pregnant it used to drive me insane (and it doesn't stop when you've had the baby either.)

I agree some women set a really low bar, that men are equally as capable but the reality can be very different. I also think the advice given is very sensible, I know it can be irritating but now my children are older I see the value in what people were saying to me.

Good luck with the baby and I wish you all the best.

MNHQ

LivMumsnet · 31/03/2023 11:26

We're just popping in here to say that we've deleted a few posts that were derailing the thread; the OP posted on here for advice, after all. We hope that things can now get back on track. Peace and love and best of luck with it all, OP.

SouthLondonMum22 · 31/03/2023 11:36

I found it irritating too. I also found jokes about how useless men are just as irritating.

I knew it wouldn't be my experience and I was correct, just like I'm sure you are.

I didn't do any of that because my husband was more than capable and I also felt more than capable to have a quick tidy up, throw a wash on etc between the baby stuff.

Husband went back to work at 4 weeks and I went back to work at 12 weeks. Not everyone finds it difficult, I found it incredibly dull and enjoyed getting back to work.

I did formula feed from birth because we wanted to share feeds too but even with breastfeeding, there isn't a reason why he can't be getting on with nappy changes, cooking etc.

susiesuelou · 31/03/2023 12:13

@AlmostaMamma

I was simply referring to those 3 comments quoted in your OP, which don't mention the man being useless. That's all I was commenting on.

TheSnailAndTheWaaaail · 31/03/2023 13:07

Merryoldgoat · 28/03/2023 00:04

My husband is a completely functioning partner and parent and we were floored by the amount of work it was just keeping the baby happy.

All of that is sound advice as far as I’m concerned.

This. My husband is an excellent partner and father and is better at keeping things organised and tidy than me, but he was completely knocked sideways by sleep deprivation after our first child came along, with working extremely long hours too, and we definitely had to let our standards slide initially.

Starsnspikes · 31/03/2023 20:03

Squamata · 28/03/2023 09:48

Jaded mother of a 6yo and 3yo here.

A tiny baby has incessant needs. You (plural) will want to spend any time you have not attending to the baby attempting to sleep and reground yourself, not cooking or doing other housework. So doing as much prep as you (plural) can to make the first three months easy is a smart suggestion.

It's all very well saying 'we'll do everything equally' but it's not always as simple as that. There is a structure that skews women towards domestic work and even with the best intentions, you end up with unequal division of labour.

Women tend to have more time off for mat leave, small babies tend to favour their mothers, it's common for women to go back part time but men stay full time, working full time gives the man a career advantage - hey presto two individuals with equal earning power and domestic responsibilities can within the space of a few years find themselves in a situation where they depend on the man's wage and he works longer hours, has more meetings etc while the woman picks up the slack with cooking and domestic stuff. Subsequent children amplify the split even more.

I don't say that to depress you, but you need to be aware there are social forces and structures that nudge you into trad roles within the home, you might start out committed to sharing domestic stuff equally but it often doesn't make practical sense in the long run. Have a bit of humility instead of assuming women who do more of the domestic labour do it because they're too stupid or passive to find another way.

It also takes experience to comprehend the level of drudge work in parenthood, chores in a household of two are much more manageable than the work that comes with a baby and it ramps up more when they start eating, leaving toys everywhere, wiping paint on the walls etc.

This is so true.

I actually think it's relatively easy to split household chores and physical childcare equally. Much harder to ensure an equal split of the mental load after you've spent 12 months with the baby essentially being your full time job.

I say this as someone with a husband who is fully involved, we very much naturally split all household and childcare duties. But I am just coming to the end of maternity leave so have been doing the majority of childcare, and as a result I definitely carry more of the mental load. Things like researching weaning, meal planning, sorting stuff for nursery, planning how to wean her off formula at 12 months, buying clothes, toys, taking her to appointments. There's the practical things which are obvious but also many things which are often unseen. Just subtle little details that you become very aware of when you're caring for a baby day in, day out. It's hard to suddenly transfer all of that knowledge to the other parent in order to manage everything equally when you go back to work.

I wouldn't have believed this before I had a baby, because I don't think it's possible to understand or imagine what it's truly like. You simply can't describe it to someone. It doesn't mean that the husband/father is useless at all, it's simply the consequence of one parent staying at home with the baby for a lengthy period of time.

We're in the process of navigating this whole thing right now by communicating about it (I annoyingly, but jokingly, point out to my husband when I'm taking more of the mental load of a particular aspect of childcare!) and planning how to address it when I'm back at work. But even with a very equal partnership, it still feels like more of a challenge than I ever anticipated.

2023a · 31/03/2023 21:03

Starsnspikes · 31/03/2023 20:03

This is so true.

I actually think it's relatively easy to split household chores and physical childcare equally. Much harder to ensure an equal split of the mental load after you've spent 12 months with the baby essentially being your full time job.

I say this as someone with a husband who is fully involved, we very much naturally split all household and childcare duties. But I am just coming to the end of maternity leave so have been doing the majority of childcare, and as a result I definitely carry more of the mental load. Things like researching weaning, meal planning, sorting stuff for nursery, planning how to wean her off formula at 12 months, buying clothes, toys, taking her to appointments. There's the practical things which are obvious but also many things which are often unseen. Just subtle little details that you become very aware of when you're caring for a baby day in, day out. It's hard to suddenly transfer all of that knowledge to the other parent in order to manage everything equally when you go back to work.

I wouldn't have believed this before I had a baby, because I don't think it's possible to understand or imagine what it's truly like. You simply can't describe it to someone. It doesn't mean that the husband/father is useless at all, it's simply the consequence of one parent staying at home with the baby for a lengthy period of time.

We're in the process of navigating this whole thing right now by communicating about it (I annoyingly, but jokingly, point out to my husband when I'm taking more of the mental load of a particular aspect of childcare!) and planning how to address it when I'm back at work. But even with a very equal partnership, it still feels like more of a challenge than I ever anticipated.

Show quote history

I honestly haven’t found any of this to be true.

My husband did as much of this as I did: Things like researching weaning, meal planning, sorting stuff for nursery, planning how to wean her off formula at 12 months, buying clothes, toys, taking her to appointments.

Didn’t have to do this, as he’d been an active participant for the entire 12 months, he already had the knowledge: It's hard to suddenly transfer all of that knowledge to the other parent in order to manage everything equally when you go back to work.

And this, it’s neither a joke nor you being annoying, so just directly tell him?: I annoyingly, but jokingly, point out to my husband when I'm taking more of the mental load of a particular aspect of childcare.

There are a lot of people on this thread who assume their experiences and challenges are universal. They’re really not.

Starsnspikes · 31/03/2023 21:14

@2023a Wow that was a...strongly worded response lol. I'm not assuming my experience is universal at all, just sharing my experience. My husband has absolutely been an 'active participant' since our daughter was born, but as he's continued working whereas my entire job for 12 months has been childcare, I've naturally taken on more of that stuff. It's felt entirely right for us to do it that way, but my husband is as much of a parent as I am!

The comment about the mental load and pointing it out was light hearted. We discuss it a lot because I'm very keen to make sure we don't fall into the trap that I see a lot of others falling into, and so I've pointed out tasks that I tend to take on which will need to be equally split when I go back to work. I've often said it in a jokey way, but it's too hard to try and explain what that looks like in a brief comment. It isn't coming across right clearly so I won't try :)

2023a · 31/03/2023 21:28

Starsnspikes · 31/03/2023 21:14

@2023a Wow that was a...strongly worded response lol. I'm not assuming my experience is universal at all, just sharing my experience. My husband has absolutely been an 'active participant' since our daughter was born, but as he's continued working whereas my entire job for 12 months has been childcare, I've naturally taken on more of that stuff. It's felt entirely right for us to do it that way, but my husband is as much of a parent as I am!

The comment about the mental load and pointing it out was light hearted. We discuss it a lot because I'm very keen to make sure we don't fall into the trap that I see a lot of others falling into, and so I've pointed out tasks that I tend to take on which will need to be equally split when I go back to work. I've often said it in a jokey way, but it's too hard to try and explain what that looks like in a brief comment. It isn't coming across right clearly so I won't try :)

You shared your experience and I said it hadn’t been mine. What part of what I said could possibly be described as ‘strongly worded’?

Babybeanbee · 13/03/2024 05:28

@AlmostaMamma wondering how your first year with your wonderful baby has been?