People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

[AlmostaMamma]

Has anyone else noticed this?

I’m currently extremely pregnant and the comments from friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues regarding having a newborn have been fascinating.

“You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.”

“Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.”

“You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess.”

Also lots of stuff about having to deal with everything for the newborn by myself.

I have a husband. He’s a competent adult (I wouldn’t have married him otherwise) who is capable of household chores and generally does more of them than I do. This will not change post birth. And, apart from me being the one who breastfeeds, we’re going to be splitting infant care pretty evenly.

It’s 2023, so presumably this isn’t a massively unusual state of affairs. So why do people say this nonsense? It was mildly amusing to begin with, but it’s starting to make me tetchy.

Good luck to you too @AlmostaMamma, exciting times! 💕

I agree with you, but when DS was born he had to be held morning, noon and night so (after the first two weeks) when DH came home from work he would basically take DS from me so I could take care of myself (shower etc) and then we’d both pretty much go to bed / share shifts holding DS through the night. So neither of us had the time or energy for cooking or cleaning and the like. He did actually batch cook (he does all the cooking on our house) thankfully which was a godsend.

it only lasted a couple of months while we got DS through silent reflux issues, but it was pretty brutal to be honest. And then we were just back to sharing all the home and childcare load.

My kids do an activity on a saturday morning, quite often I will take them out an hour beforehand leaving their mum at home and me and kids go out for breakfast before the activity. All very nice.

As we go to same places quite often i know for a fact that staff/customers all think i am a divorced dad just because i am out somewhere on my own with the kids.

Hmm I'm a bit on the fence here.
I have six kids and the support I found more valuable from dh was him doing the winding, giving a bottle, nappy changes and getting involved with the babies or helping the other kids. I didn't want him taken away from those jobs and his chance to bond with the babies because he was cooking.
Getting organised before the baby comes makes sense for both of you. Also I actually didn't mind going and folding some washing or having a tidy up will dh had the baby. It can be nice just to have a little break from keeping a small human alive for ten minutes. Although not the most exciting break.

There's an air of superiority about your post tbh. All these silly women who have set the bar so low, and here you are, before you actually have the child, having it all figured out! Amazing
Not the vibe I'm getting at all. OP has entirely reasonable expectations of her husband and is disappointed that even now there is an acceptance that men are useless and that her totally reasonable expectations are somehow unreasonable. I get it. There is a lot of it still about and it still shocks me sometimes. First time I went out with the school mums so we all had 4/5 year old and mostly an older or younger sibling and 3 of them all had stress getting texts from their partners about how to bedtime or chasing them or a story about how they'd had to bargain to go out and how hard it was for their husbands etc.

Just last week I helped out a school mum with the school drop off when she had another ill child. I'd assumed her DH had to get to work early or was going with her to hospital. Nope, it turns out he just didn't know how to do the school run.

I’m sure it won’t happen to you but I just wanted to say I think the women saying these thing think they’re being nice and ‘warning’ you because things like that happened to them - they aren’t trying be nasty to you or your partner.

Just this morning I was reading a thread on Reddit which went off on a very slight tangent where hundreds of women started discussing how amazing their husband was before kids eg did more than half the housework, took loads of the mental load on, cooked etc and then when they had kids basically became useless. Loads of these women were saying they warn women they know who haven’t had kids yet or discuss it a lot around other women so they’re aware of their experience.

To be fair by the posts on father's and partners on here lots seem to allow the males in their lives to sit around and rest for some strange reason.

Best of luck @AlmostaMamma !

If you haven't read it, I think from your writing style that you'd enjoy Making Babies by Anne Enright, it's a good memoir of having kids and talks about some of the tensions and challenges. Get a copy if you can!

Nope, it turns out he just didn't know how to do the school run.

That’s rather spectacular. There really are no words.

That’s all very fair and, for the most part, definitely true. They are mostly nice women who are trying to be helpful. I should definitely keep that mind.

Do you happen to remember what that thread was called, by the way? Sounds like interesting reading.

I’ve ordered it now! Love a book recommendation.

And, thank you very much. 💗

I think it’s an excellent idea, if two parents can take leave for twelve weeks. Some people, particularly if self employed, would find that difficult financially. It could be a question of taking leave, or the business not surviving. I speak from experience.

OP I’ve just re read your original post. Whether or not people who know are suggesting men are useless or not, I found the following to be completely true when baby arrived for both me and DH:

You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.”

“Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.”

“You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess”

My experience was that absolutely nothing (books, YouTube etc) could prepare me for how all encompassing a newborn is. Unless you have a baby that accepts being put down (you may get lucky!), you’ll probably find you spend the first six weeks doing a double act with your DH re who needs to hold the baby. And when it’s DH’s turn to hold baby, you’ll probably want to sleep, and vice versa. Household chores will be on your and your DH “to do list” of course but may never make it to the top. I didn’t even manage to unpack my hospital bag for about 8 weeks (and I am usually a super organised gal). That was my experience anyway so just sharing with you in case it’s of help. You of course may have a completely different experience. :-) I personally completely under estimated that a baby that doesn’t want to be put down simply can’t be put down even for 3 seconds.

”This will not change post birth.”

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

OP I sincerely wish you the best of luck and hope your husband doesn’t do what mine did, which is transform overnight when he became a father, from someone who shared all chores equally, into a workaholic who sees housework and childcare as women’s work.

Even if the dad wants to look after the baby, if you are breastfeeding, the baby will want you not him. Whenever Dh tried to do bedtime the baby would scream with fury, at 2am this is not fun and we soon gave up any idea of DH doing bedtimes.

I have spent the last decade socialising mostly with mums and children and I never yet met a dad who shares 50% of childcare or 50% housework. Never. Even if the mum works fulltime. The only women I know with successful careers have a fulltime nanny and a cleaner and a husband who has always been the lower earner, and they are still absolutely shattered.

Perhaps things will be different for you than for everyone I’ve met, but don’t be too cross with the comments people are making - they’re trying to prepare you for the massive disillusionment and disappointment you’re heading for. Maternal instinct does exist btw and men have none. None at all.

@AlmostaMamma

"We plan on enjoying it, but thank you."

Please, please don't be so patronising.

I am a Mum of three with a husband who does more than his fair share of housework and parenting. I know far more than you currently do about what it means to be a parent.

I know you think you know. I know you have it all planned and it's all very lovely and your partner is the best. You have NO idea. Not yet. There are so many amazing moments. But many, many hard ones. You have a very romanticised view of parenting.

I hope it all works out for you, I really do. But please keep an open mind.

OP I sincerely wish you the best of luck and hope your husband doesn’t do what mine did, which is transform overnight when he became a father, from someone who shared all chores equally, into a workaholic who sees housework and childcare as women’s work.

While it’s certainly not impossible that he will suddenly have a complete change in personality, beliefs and natural inclinations, I find it very unlikely.

Even if the dad wants to look after the baby, if you are breastfeeding, the baby will want you not him. Whenever Dh tried to do bedtime the baby would scream with fury, at 2am this is not fun and we soon gave up any idea of DH doing bedtimes.

Then he can do something else. We’ve factored that into our plans.

I have spent the last decade socialising mostly with mums and children and I never yet met a dad who shares 50% of childcare or 50% housework. Never. Even if the mum works fulltime. The only women I know with successful careers have a fulltime nanny and a cleaner and a husband who has always been the lower earner, and they are still absolutely shattered.

I’m happy to say that this hasn’t been my experience. We’re not doing anything groundbreaking. I know people with similar relationships and careers to me and DH, and they’re trundling along equitably. And, unsurprisingly, they’re not the ones saying things like the comments in the OP.

Perhaps things will be different for you than for everyone I’ve met

I think this is likely.

but don’t be too cross with the comments people are making - they’re trying to prepare you for the massive disillusionment and disappointment you’re heading for.

As above, I don’t think I’m heading for either of those things.

Maternal instinct does exist btw and men have none. None at all.

I think that statement is rather illustrative of the unfortunate attitude I’ve described in the OP.

I’m happy to say that this hasn’t been my experience. We’re not doing anything groundbreaking. I know people with similar relationships and careers to me and DH, and they’re trundling along equitably. And, unsurprisingly, they’re not the ones saying things like the comments in the OP.
Me too OP. It definitely is possible and I know lots of couples like us as well where there's genuine equity. I know there's a lot of relationships with a ton of inequity but it's far from universal.

"While it’s certainly not impossible that he will suddenly have a complete change in personality, beliefs and natural inclinations, I find it very unlikely."

But this quote just proves that you have no idea how far parenting can impact both fathers and mothers. It's a massive, massive life change. I know you think you know what it's going to be like, but you don't. Just be open minded and wait and see. People, including me, are speaking from experience here.

Just because your husband is a good partner, it doesn't mean he's going to be a good dad. It really doesn't!

We plan on enjoying it, but thank you

Very old military saying “No plan survives contact with the enemy”. Let us know how it goes.

Spot on @Mixkle, my son is not a feminist ally, which rather ruined my hopes to split bedtimes with DP.

If you tell me I have an air of superiority, address points I haven’t made and say things like ‘Just because a man can put a wash load on or whip up a fresh batch of chilli con carne, doesn't necessarily make him a good dad’ then you don’t really get to complain about being patronised.

Particularly if it’s followed up by this:

I am a Mum of three with a husband who does more than his fair share of housework and parenting. I know far more than you currently do about what it means to be a parent.

I know you think you know. I know you have it all planned and it's all very lovely and your partner is the best. You have NO idea. Not yet. There are so many amazing moments. But many, many hard ones. You have a very romanticised view of parenting.

I don’t have romanticised views of anything. Your experiences of parenting are not universal, as has been established by this thread. Thank you for your contribution, but I find your tone offensive and I’m not interested in anything you have to say.

Thats all totally fair! I’m going to copy/paste one of my comments from above, as I think it explains my position a bit.

Saying both parents will be exhausted and should prepare for it (great advice) is entirely different from assuming the man can’t cook or do laundry, so the woman should prepare accordingly.

Honestly, this on repeat to all the people saying it’s good advice. We are preparing for most eventualities (we’re people who like a plan), while being cognisant of the fact that we can’t plan for everything.

Advice to batch cook or stock up on stuff is great advice and very welcome. It’s the ‘as he obviously won’t be able to do XYZ’ and ‘can he do laundry properly’ that has accompanied said advice that’s irritating.

I have spent the last decade socialising mostly with mums and children and I never yet met a dad who shares 50% of childcare or 50% housework. Never. Even if the mum works fulltime.

I find this surprising. DH absolutely does 50% of everything. But I don't particularly say this out loud. When I was on mat leave I was at a baby group and there were 5-6 other mums all talking about their useless husbands in a "ha ha isn't it funny how men just can't dress a baby! Bless them and their silly man ways. They can't possibly be expected to do any housework"
I kept quiet, I didn't start telling them that actually men are perfectly capable of doing it.

It’s in the AITA subreddit and I forget the exact title but it’s been posted by the husband of the situation and called something like ‘AITA for telling my wife to stop being a princess’.

Basically the wife of the situation was playing princesses with their daughter and he told her to stop it because she isn’t a princess and the wife got upset about the way he spoke to her and is being off with him.

Everyone was saying he was in the wrong, she was playing with their child and he’s basically ruined their game. Then someone said their dad was like that, someone replied to them saying their husband was like it with their children and she was surprised as he loved playing with kids in their families before they had kids and it just kind of rolled on and in with women saying their husband completely changed after children and started including childcare/housework etc as well as playing.

Exactly. From the comments on here, you’d think we were proposing something mind blowing. No, just regular equitable relationships, which lots of people have. They just don’t seem to exist on MN. Which is a bit of a shame.