People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

[AlmostaMamma]

Has anyone else noticed this?

I’m currently extremely pregnant and the comments from friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues regarding having a newborn have been fascinating.

“You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.”

“Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.”

“You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess.”

Also lots of stuff about having to deal with everything for the newborn by myself.

I have a husband. He’s a competent adult (I wouldn’t have married him otherwise) who is capable of household chores and generally does more of them than I do. This will not change post birth. And, apart from me being the one who breastfeeds, we’re going to be splitting infant care pretty evenly.

It’s 2023, so presumably this isn’t a massively unusual state of affairs. So why do people say this nonsense? It was mildly amusing to begin with, but it’s starting to make me tetchy.

👏👏👏

in reality most men just expect their world not to change while the female takes on the lions share of feeding, changing, bathing and child care. It certainly took my ex by surprise that he couldn't sit with a beer all Saturday afternoon! And beforehand he'd always stepped up for housework. Baby arrived and 1950s suddenly man did too.

Totally agree OP! My husband was fantastic in the first post baby days both times. I was in hospital for 5 days this second time and he kept my 3 year old alive in that time too, who knew 😂

We don't assume, we know

I agree with you to a point, but think the fact your DH gets 12 weeks of paternity leave makes a massive difference. I also think that some women assume that because they'll be home on maternity leave, they'll be able to get stuff done. So the advice is aimed at them, and is saying "you really might not be able to do it". Before I had DD1 it didn't really occur to me that I wouldn't be able to, for example, hang up a load of washing to dry - it takes 5 mins! But DD1 screamed herself sick if put down for more than 30 seconds. DD2 I could probably wash every item of clothing in the house by hand before she even noticed, but DD1 was a different kettle of fish entirely and I could barely manage to get dressed half the time. Of course DH could, and did, just hang up the washing instead. But before she was born it hadn't occurred to me that he'd need to, since I was at home anyway and it takes no time at all to do.

My DH does just as much housework as me, and always has. But he had two weeks of paternity leave, then he was out of the house 8-6:30, we were both up multiple times a night, and neither of us felt like doing much housework. I'd had three weeks off work before DD was born, and so had done a lot of batch cooking that was a great help in the first month. (I didn't cook enough to feed us every night for a month, but it was very useful to have those meals there a few times a week).

My OH and I have a pretty good balance of household responsibilities but we had a clingy, sleep hating child and having batch cooked stuff in the freezer was a massive help. We also did a bit of a spring clean and chucked stuff before each of the kids arrived and it helped. Also I know of more than one couple who had a fair division of stuff pre baby but lost it a bit on maternity leave. I certainly found with my first I’d do stuff OH normally did as home all day and baby could go in sling while I pottered on days I had no desire to go to a group to enable us to have the evening together. Problem is that can become the norm over the months you are off and then it takes a bit of adjustment when you go back to work. I’d just keep an eye on how much you are taking on and step back a bit if you realise it’s loads as it’s easier for both of you to have you both appreciate the extra effort there will be to manage everything from the offset vs it being a bump when you return to work.

Jaded mother of a 6yo and 3yo here.

A tiny baby has incessant needs. You (plural) will want to spend any time you have not attending to the baby attempting to sleep and reground yourself, not cooking or doing other housework. So doing as much prep as you (plural) can to make the first three months easy is a smart suggestion.

It's all very well saying 'we'll do everything equally' but it's not always as simple as that. There is a structure that skews women towards domestic work and even with the best intentions, you end up with unequal division of labour.

Women tend to have more time off for mat leave, small babies tend to favour their mothers, it's common for women to go back part time but men stay full time, working full time gives the man a career advantage - hey presto two individuals with equal earning power and domestic responsibilities can within the space of a few years find themselves in a situation where they depend on the man's wage and he works longer hours, has more meetings etc while the woman picks up the slack with cooking and domestic stuff. Subsequent children amplify the split even more.

I don't say that to depress you, but you need to be aware there are social forces and structures that nudge you into trad roles within the home, you might start out committed to sharing domestic stuff equally but it often doesn't make practical sense in the long run. Have a bit of humility instead of assuming women who do more of the domestic labour do it because they're too stupid or passive to find another way.

It also takes experience to comprehend the level of drudge work in parenthood, chores in a household of two are much more manageable than the work that comes with a baby and it ramps up more when they start eating, leaving toys everywhere, wiping paint on the walls etc.

I don’t think there are large numbers of people who are able to take the amount of paternity leave you describe. Most I know, have two weeks and then cobble together a mix of support subsequently. Some won’t even have that. Self employed folk might have to juggle any leave at all.

The thing about babies is, that they haven’t taken into account what your plans are.

Fantastic post by @Squamata (from the jaded mother of a 4yo and 2yo - sending sympathy and coffee).

This is an excellent plan. Wish we had done this. After the shortish cluster feeding period it will stand you in really good stead if DH develops his own techniques for settling baby to sleep. This sounds simple but may not be! Good luck with your newborn, and get used to smiling and nodding to advice and comments.... it won't let up for at least 18 years :)

I HATE the comments, agree they're completely misogynistic!

That said, I have a lovely partner who got 5 weeks off when our son was born in December - and we were incredibly grateful of the batch cooking! The house was slightly messier but the washing up was done etc. It's exhausting for you both, so it was nice to have easy healthy dinners that didn't create much washing up.

People are right that your focus in those first few weeks will just be feeding baby and sleeping, and my husband was a great support for that time.

Amazing that he gets 3 months off!

In my antenatal group I’ve been very surprised by just how 1950s it all is, with most of the mums complaining all the time (with good reason) about the dads doing sod all or doing things badly because they cba to learn how to do baby things. I’m never sure what to say because if I say “err that’s not normal, my DP is nothing like that so you shouldn’t stand for it”, it comes across, I think, as boasty, and the other mums seem to bond over how useless their men are…

Totally see why those comments are winding you up as you've been sensible enough not to procreate with a caveman dolt.

A male colleague shared with me his realisation that parenting is actually quite hard work after he 'babysat' his three kids for the first time. Prior to this he'd been getting increasingly annoyed at coming home to a messy house, and having to wait a bit for his tea. I think those comments are aimed at women with men like that?

It's great that your husband has a decent amount of time off. We approached our first child with similar expectations and we were both exhausted, woken up throughout the night, and had constant amounts of things to do. We didn't manage to do everything 50/50 though. DC1 had a clear preference for me, exacerbated by DH having to go back to work after 3 weeks. When it's 3am and you know you can settle the baby in 5 mins or DH can spend upwards of an hour getting the baby back to sleep, it's very hard not to go with the 5 minute option. So I spent lots of newborn time sat feeding/settling DC1 while DH did cooking/cleaning etc,

DC2 we've had to combi-feed and though it started out of necessity and I was sad I couldn't EBF, it's actually really equalised things between me and DH who can now (as I've recovered from birth) do everything equally. Personality of DC2 might play into this too as is happy with anyone. Not to say that we're not both exhausted/snappy with each other but equally so! Anyway batch cooking and lowered standards for housework are both helpful for survival in the early weeks and free up time for you both to relax together/enjoy spending time with your baby together.

Not my experience. My husband was far more confident/competent in the early weeks than I was.

Anyone in employment can take up to 12 weeks paternity leave.

I would strongly recommend batch cooking and stocking up on stuff! My DP was far from useless with our son when he was a newborn but we were both exhausted. Having a few meals in the freezer really helped!

I totally hear you, OP. For what it's worth, I was brought up by my Dad (Mum died when I was very young), and DH was MUCH better with our DD as a baby than I was. He's from a big family, and was used to babies, whereas the first time I had anything to do with a baby was my own. Also, owing to the tricky circumstances of her birth, I was in ICU for the first three days of her life, and hardly saw her - DH did all the feeding, bathing, rocking to sleep etc. It's quite right that you don't have gendered expectations - men can, and do, cope extremely well. However, as other posters have said, don't underestimate how shattered both of you will be. Good luck!

I was sahm for year so did more than dh but nothing I did he couldn't do, when he was home he did the baby things

If you go with the 'baby's father can't do anything' and live like that you only have yourself to blame (in a general sense)

Mind you there is a difference in one parent saying the other is wrong just because they don't do it their way

Honestly, I think the advice about batch cooking and stocking up on spare clothes is just good advice for soon-to-be new parents. My husband was as hands on with our babies and the house as they come (and took 6 weeks off work each time) but we were still glad we had plenty of food in the freezer and plenty of spare baby clothes. You both end up pretty knackered from the sleep deprivation and you (mum) might be feeding a lot and in pain from birth - you don’t know what you’re going to get, so preparing as much as you can in advance is just good sense.

But yes I know what you mean generally.

I have a husband who pulls his own weight in cooking and shopping and childcare and i would still reccomend batch cooking and doing a big clean before baby comes.

My husband had a month off with all 3 of our children due to a combination of paternity leave, annual leave and the way his shift pattern fell.
Even though he was there to do all the cooking/cleaning etc he still wanted to sit with me and the baby, do nappy changes in the night, moral support at 3 am when baby wouldnt sleep and i was trying to establish feeding etc. It was nice to ba able to just chuck something in the oven and not have to spend ages cleaning so that we could just enjoy the baby!
obviouslt wiht baby 2 and 3 it was more about crowd control and also DH entertaining the toddlers while i dealt with the baby.

The 3 months off thing is a huge differentiator though. For the vast majority of women, they get their DHs around for 2 weeks or so, and then suddenly they are at home with a small baby and there's a general expectation that they'll step up and do most of it. And the comments you're getting are aimed at that situation - ie, just because you're at home all day doesn't mean you should feel bad if you can't do housework or whatever.

I have quite a few friends whose DHs have taken extended paternity leave but usually it's not together - ie the woman takes 4-6 months and then the man takes some time (usually a bit shorter - most have been around 3 months). Your set up, with both of you off work at the same time, is very unusual.

So while I don't blame you for being annoyed with the comments, I would try to take them in the spirt they're most likely intended.

Gosh OP, I know you’re pregnant and probably hormonal but calm down and just relax. You know your DH/DP will be helping out so why the fuck are you complaining so much about what randoms are saying?

Your comment is more worked up than anything I’ve written. I’m pretty calm, thank you. I made an MN post about something I find irritating, it’s not causing me undue duress.

And DH won’t be ‘helping out’, he’ll be doing his share. Words matter.

Thank you! 😊

Someone literally asked me if he (a 35 year old man) knew how to do laundry properly, yesterday. It’s what prompted this post. I think it has everything to do with the assumption that men are a bit shit.

And I’m sure having a newborn will be hard. Not disputing that at all!

@EssexMamisoa and @Orangepolentacake Totally take your (very fair) points re the collective ‘you’ and us both being shattered. We’ve tried to take that into account with our plans, but get that you can’t really plan for this. Hoping for the best! 😊

However, these comments were definitely not intended in that way. As I said above, I had someone ask me if DH knew how to do laundry properly. It’s that sort of attitude I’m getting at.