People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

[AlmostaMamma]

Has anyone else noticed this?

I’m currently extremely pregnant and the comments from friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues regarding having a newborn have been fascinating.

“You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.”

“Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.”

“You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess.”

Also lots of stuff about having to deal with everything for the newborn by myself.

I have a husband. He’s a competent adult (I wouldn’t have married him otherwise) who is capable of household chores and generally does more of them than I do. This will not change post birth. And, apart from me being the one who breastfeeds, we’re going to be splitting infant care pretty evenly.

It’s 2023, so presumably this isn’t a massively unusual state of affairs. So why do people say this nonsense? It was mildly amusing to begin with, but it’s starting to make me tetchy.

I@2023a and @Babyboomtastic s posts.

I don’t see why saying “do some batch cooking” ahead of the birth is sexist. It sounds totally normal to me.

You will also find that anyone who has the temerity to agree with you and has had the life experience to support their views, are not popular on MN, it doesn't fit the mantra of martyrdom.

keeps talking about both parents being home for a year, though. I have no idea where that’s come from.

Yes, you have. You’re very far from stupid. She’s misread 12 weeks as 12 months.

Nope. I don’t care about other couples’ split of domestic labour, so I haven’t posted a thread about other couples’ split of domestic labour.

And I’ve responded to that question. I’ll copy/paste: Different people have responded differently. Generally sheepishness, the occasional ‘you’ll see’.

As stated, you are clearly not reading what’s being said to you.

I don’t see why saying “do some batch cooking” ahead of the birth is sexist. It sounds totally normal to me.
Which OP has acknowledged more than once. It's not sexist to suggest batch cooking to make everyone's lives easier. But it is sexist to suggest batch cooking is essential because without OP doing that woman's work of cooking no cooking will get done.

Which is what's happening. And some people are talking about that in a thread. Which is what most threads are about really; discussing stuff that happens.

Not sure what seems so unusual about that.

Despite having responses to her literally say Two parents aren’t caring for the baby for 12 months, though. That’s not the situation. A mother is taking standard maternity (that most of us take) and a father is taking three months.

Right.

People have repeatedly told you that DH isn’t home for 12 months. It’s three.

And ‘do some batch cooking’ is sexist if the reason you’re being asked to do it is the assumption that your DH can’t or won’t cook. Which is the case here.

So sorry I missed this gem. Having flounced? You do have tickets on yourself. Are we all supposed to be forgoing work, sleep, and all other aspects of life, glued to your insane thread waiting for your next explosion of self-importance delivered like an army major in high dudgeon?

Bitter now, am I?! What about?

It will be interesting to see how your iron-clad plans work out, once a screaming baby, sleepless nights, and the reality of the work involves sets in, along with all sorts of other things you cannot plan for or factor in until they occur.

@AlmostaMamma i think it can depend on how birth goes too.

My husband, like yours, has always done more than the fair share of chores. Washing, cleaning, hoovering, shopping etc.

When we had our first, it was a long induction ending in an EMCS.
We were both shell shocked and traumatised by it, and both sleep deprived from a lengthy stay in hospital before we’d even gotten our son home.

Without having batch cooked beforehand or stocked up on some essentials we would REALLY have struggled more than we did.

We are due our second in a few weeks and I will be doing the same again, just to ease the pressure off us both.

Since your husband has 12 weeks off I think you're right. For most couples though the dad has to go back to work after two weeks and after that, who's gonna do all that stuff?

It depends so much on your baby. My first was very clingy and I got virtually nothing done on the day - just eating and showering was a challenge - and so housework dropped to a minimum. DH did what he could on weekends and the odd day off he'd take but things were just a bit grubby a lot of the time. My second is so chilled, however, that I find myself actively looking for more work to do cause I've done it all. Thank goodness cause on weekends DH and I are both fully occupied with looking after a toddler and baby!

"It will be interesting to see how your iron-clad plans work out, once a screaming baby, sleepless nights, and the reality of the work involves sets in, along with all sorts of other things you cannot plan for or factor in until they occur."

The OP won't hear of it. She's not interested in what you are saying unless it's that she's awesome, her husband is a domestic god and that they all it all worked out and will be the world's best parents.

No better parent than the one who hasn't actually been one yet.

To be fair to OP I don't think she is suggesting that they will be the world's best parents. What she is suggesting, not unreasonably, is that there should be an even split of work when both parents are at home. She is also, again understandably, frustrated by the comments she has received which appear to indicate that only women can cook and / or take care of a baby.

@Sistanotcista and I get that they are frustrating to her, but how can she not understand that they are rooted in traditional family circumstances where the father went back to work and the mother stayed at home? Of course that's why people are saying it. Yes, it's 2023, but the reality is that many families still live this way.

People aren't intentionally being sexist, they are just offering advice based on their actual experience.

This thread isn't about what people are saying, though. It's about people confirming to the OP that she is right, that she's doing everything right, and that she is awesome. Only on Mumsnet do people get worked up about such things. She knows she'll get a response in her favour, that's why she's posted.

I get that they are frustrating to her, but how can she not understand that they are rooted in traditional family circumstances where the father went back to work and the mother stayed at home? Of course that's why people are saying it. Yes, it's 2023, but the reality is that many families still live this way.

People aren't intentionally being sexist, they are just offering advice based on their actual experience.

Fair enough :)

People aren't intentionally being sexist, they are just offering advice based on their actual experience.
No reason it can't be both.

I don't think OP has posted in the smug frame of mind you are projecting either. But in one of sunrise and frustration.

DH didn't take 12 weeks of SPL, he took the traditional 2 weeks of paternity leave. Makes no difference to the fact that if anyone had suggested to me no cooking or hoovering would get done for months because I wouldn't be able to do it I'd have been surprised and frustrated too at the assumption DH couldn't and/or wouldn't do it.

FIL was in his 70s when DC1 was born. He would have been hugely unimpressed with the idea that woman = sole housekeeper but apparently it's an idea that it's unreasonable to be annoyed by.

@DappledThings

You don't think comments like "My choice of partner was excellent," and "we plan on enjoying it, but thank you," are smug?!!

The OP is very sure of herself for someone who has no experience in raising children with a partner. That's what I'm saying.

Alright, maybe a touch smug but not that bad. We planned on enjoying it too and did. It's not that outlandish.

And it still comes down to the start of the thread which was the assumption that men can't/won't hoover or do laundry. Not that plans might go out the window, not that it might be hard or tiring or causing snappiness, but the starting point being that her DH not stepping up is inevitable. And it absolutely should not be assumed or considered inevitable. That was all this thread started as.

I really don’t understand why someone with a paragon of a partner would be “surprised and frustrated” by other women having partners who don’t meet their standards. Who cares what other people’s partners are like as long as you’re happy with yours?

You seem very worked up. You could just not come back. 😂

But the reason it's assumed is because it's been like that for millions of families for generations! It defaults to the mother. As I said, whether that's right or wrong, or whether men should pull more weight at home is another debate. But how can you not see that THAT is why people are saying it? I know that you and the OP are offended by it, but people are saying it because that's what they've experienced!

Because I've had plenty of conversations with other mums from the school group where they clearly aren't happy about the division of labour but consider it entirely normal. If we don't challenge it the shit behaviour continues.

I could just not give a shit about anyone else in the world but it's a bit Thatcherite no such as society for my liking.

If you read what they were in response to (which I note you’ve not quoted), then no.

And, none of OP’s comments have had anything to do with childrearing. Not one.

Fact is...only on Mumsnet. People don't spout this stuff in real life.

you can only say that because you've never met me. I am perfectly capable of laughing at people, or replying to people, or being cross with people (different people, different occasions, depends on my mood etc) spouting stupid, idiotic, pathetic, sad, sexist stereotypically nonsense.

But how can you not see that THAT is why people are saying it? I know that you and the OP are offended by it, but people are saying it because that's what they've experienced!
I'm not offended. I'm frustrated.

And just because someone else had a shit partner who never did the washing up doesn't mean they should assume OP's will be the same. Why should anyone's previous shit experience be allowed to perpetuate the belief that that shit is to be passively accepted?