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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

354 replies

AlmostaMamma · 27/03/2023 23:27

Has anyone else noticed this?

I’m currently extremely pregnant and the comments from friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues regarding having a newborn have been fascinating.

“You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.”

“Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.”

“You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess.”

Also lots of stuff about having to deal with everything for the newborn by myself.

I have a husband. He’s a competent adult (I wouldn’t have married him otherwise) who is capable of household chores and generally does more of them than I do. This will not change post birth. And, apart from me being the one who breastfeeds, we’re going to be splitting infant care pretty evenly.

It’s 2023, so presumably this isn’t a massively unusual state of affairs. So why do people say this nonsense? It was mildly amusing to begin with, but it’s starting to make me tetchy.

OP posts:
2023a · 30/03/2023 14:44

surrenderdorothy · 30/03/2023 14:41

If you say so. Hmm

I do look forward to the promised update in six months, when the world's first ever parent reports back on the realities these offending commenters tried to help smoothe out with their well-meaning advice.

As I said in my first post (not well-received by OP):

You'd almost think they have more life experience than you.

I do say so.

And I have three kids. Lots of the posters who agree with OP and have marriages with equitably shared domestic labour are parents, and have said so. As OP has stated, she’s not proposing anything groundbreaking. Follow your own advice and read the thread.

TomeTome · 30/03/2023 14:48

@2023a
You think three months paternity is humongous and a holiday.

Do you think 12 months maternity is humongous and a holiday. Not two patents off for 12 months, the reality of standard maternity leave for the mother. Is that humongous?. I think it’s a long maternity leave and certainly not as easy as when OPs husband is at home,for me it’s more about us being at home together than how much work is involved that makes it a holiday. Is it a holiday? hmmm well if OP is going back to a full time job plus commute childcare AND the rest of the stuff she does now I think she’ll feel it is.

If it’s not, then why is three months paternity a holiday? because the father is only doing half the childcare and housework and not earning any money.

Relaxitsonlyababy · 30/03/2023 14:50

The fact he gets 12 week’s paternity is quite big factor/ most are lucky to get 2 weeks at a push. My husband was allowed the day off for the birth then had to work a week before he was allowed his two week’s paternity. I ended up having to stay in hospital for 4 days and then went and stayed with my parents - I wish I’d taken note of all the annoying comments tbh. We share things now. But the early days were rough. x

2023a · 30/03/2023 15:09

TomeTome · 30/03/2023 14:48

@2023a
You think three months paternity is humongous and a holiday.

Do you think 12 months maternity is humongous and a holiday. Not two patents off for 12 months, the reality of standard maternity leave for the mother. Is that humongous?. I think it’s a long maternity leave and certainly not as easy as when OPs husband is at home,for me it’s more about us being at home together than how much work is involved that makes it a holiday. Is it a holiday? hmmm well if OP is going back to a full time job plus commute childcare AND the rest of the stuff she does now I think she’ll feel it is.

If it’s not, then why is three months paternity a holiday? because the father is only doing half the childcare and housework and not earning any money.

12 months is standard, so not long for maternity leave. And I certainly didn’t consider mine a holiday. I don’t think many women do. Going back to work was actually a bit of a relief!

And most people get paid during the majority of SPL.

Original poster
AlmostaMamma · 30/03/2023 15:15

billowballow · 30/03/2023 14:36

@AlmostaMamma I didn't say 3 months was excessive my dh got 2 weeks paid paternity. I'd have loved him to have longer off

A lot of men only get two weeks paid so it probably feels they're useless when they're at work and not helping when the woman is left at home. that's the patriarchy of U.K. law shining through though and not women! It was bloody useless as our baby slept through he the first two weeks the shit hit the fan thereafter and a lot of women including myself were left to deal with it! Where are all the men crying out it's not enough paternity leave? I can't hear them 😂

Men being forced back to work after two weeks does mean they don't even see some of the grunt involved and there have been cases of women complaining when the men act like their wives have it so good being home all day when in fact it's bloody hard for some being alone with a newborn all day everyday! You're taking a generalisation and trying to apply it to your situation. Stereotypes do come from somewhere. They do exist. All the best with your baby.

I didn't say 3 months was excessive my dh got 2 weeks paid paternity. I'd have loved him to have longer off

You didn’t, but the comment to which I was responding when you thought I was minimising the importance of maternity leave did.

Where are all the men crying out it's not enough paternity leave? I can't hear them

Enough cried out for paternity leave to have been increased. It’s happened. So, they certainly exist.

Men being forced back to work after two weeks does mean they don't even see some of the grunt involved and there have been cases of women complaining when the men act like their wives have it so good being home all day when in fact it's bloody hard for some being alone with a newborn all day everyday!

All true, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with what I’ve said.

You're taking a generalisation and trying to apply it to your situation.

I don’t really know what you mean by this.

All the best with your baby.

Thank you very much!

OP posts:
Original poster
AlmostaMamma · 30/03/2023 15:16

Relaxitsonlyababy · 30/03/2023 14:50

The fact he gets 12 week’s paternity is quite big factor/ most are lucky to get 2 weeks at a push. My husband was allowed the day off for the birth then had to work a week before he was allowed his two week’s paternity. I ended up having to stay in hospital for 4 days and then went and stayed with my parents - I wish I’d taken note of all the annoying comments tbh. We share things now. But the early days were rough. x

That sounds so tough! So sorry you had to go through that.

OP posts:
Original poster
AlmostaMamma · 30/03/2023 15:20

This thread certainly got spicy for a bit, there. I love MN. 😂

OP posts:
Blossomtoes · 30/03/2023 15:21

AlmostaMamma · 30/03/2023 15:16

That sounds so tough! So sorry you had to go through that.

Show quote history

I know it’s not misery top trumps but mine had to go straight back to work after collecting us from hospital. Paternity pay didn’t exist in those days.

I’m delighted it does now, particularly as so many people live a very long way from their families. Most people’s mums stepped into the breach.

TomeTome · 30/03/2023 15:25

Yes but I’m not “most” people. So while you might think looking after one baby is hard work, I might find it a walk in the park, and while you might find 12 months paid leave or three months paternity leave or two years or ten hard or easy I can only really post from my own experience.

2023a · 30/03/2023 15:47

TomeTome · 30/03/2023 15:25

Yes but I’m not “most” people. So while you might think looking after one baby is hard work, I might find it a walk in the park, and while you might find 12 months paid leave or three months paternity leave or two years or ten hard or easy I can only really post from my own experience.

Standard maternity leave is standard maternity leave. It’s not a matter of opinion. So if you go ‘I think it’s a long maternity leave’ about 12 months, you’re just wrong. If your maternity was somehow shorter, that’s your experience - doesn’t make what ‘most women’ get long.

TomeTome · 30/03/2023 16:18

@2023a it’s perfectly possible to think “standard” provision is long/short/just right. I personally a year is a long time but for you I suppose it might feel less. Not everyone reading your post will have that experience though. Some are older, some are not in the uk and some aren’t employees.

Original poster
AlmostaMamma · 30/03/2023 17:29

Blossomtoes · 30/03/2023 15:21

I know it’s not misery top trumps but mine had to go straight back to work after collecting us from hospital. Paternity pay didn’t exist in those days.

I’m delighted it does now, particularly as so many people live a very long way from their families. Most people’s mums stepped into the breach.

Show quote history

While I’m sure you managed it well (people tend just get on with things, don’t they?) I’m sorry you had to. It sounds really hard on both of you.

Yes, things have certainly come a long way. I’d be interested to see how it all looks in 50 years!

OP posts:
ouse · 30/03/2023 19:34

Squamata · 28/03/2023 09:48

Jaded mother of a 6yo and 3yo here.

A tiny baby has incessant needs. You (plural) will want to spend any time you have not attending to the baby attempting to sleep and reground yourself, not cooking or doing other housework. So doing as much prep as you (plural) can to make the first three months easy is a smart suggestion.

It's all very well saying 'we'll do everything equally' but it's not always as simple as that. There is a structure that skews women towards domestic work and even with the best intentions, you end up with unequal division of labour.

Women tend to have more time off for mat leave, small babies tend to favour their mothers, it's common for women to go back part time but men stay full time, working full time gives the man a career advantage - hey presto two individuals with equal earning power and domestic responsibilities can within the space of a few years find themselves in a situation where they depend on the man's wage and he works longer hours, has more meetings etc while the woman picks up the slack with cooking and domestic stuff. Subsequent children amplify the split even more.

I don't say that to depress you, but you need to be aware there are social forces and structures that nudge you into trad roles within the home, you might start out committed to sharing domestic stuff equally but it often doesn't make practical sense in the long run. Have a bit of humility instead of assuming women who do more of the domestic labour do it because they're too stupid or passive to find another way.

It also takes experience to comprehend the level of drudge work in parenthood, chores in a household of two are much more manageable than the work that comes with a baby and it ramps up more when they start eating, leaving toys everywhere, wiping paint on the walls etc.

Well said.

susiesuelou · 30/03/2023 20:28

Merryoldgoat · 28/03/2023 00:04

My husband is a completely functioning partner and parent and we were floored by the amount of work it was just keeping the baby happy.

All of that is sound advice as far as I’m concerned.

Oh so much THIS!

My partner is also a fully functional human who pulls his weight and more, but by Christ did having a newborn floor us. No matter how competent you both are, it's fucking hard slog. Other things do go to shit for a while, even with a two man team. So being as prepared as possible is absolutely excellent advice you'll be glad you took.

susiesuelou · 30/03/2023 20:31

surrenderdorothy · 30/03/2023 14:15

“You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.”

“Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.”

“You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess.”

None of these are offensive comments. These are nice well-meaning women, the OP has said so herself. They are speaking from their own, and no doubt observation of their friends' and other family members', experience. They are merely trying to offer helpful suggestions, which can of course be irritating. She's choosing however to flame off into the sky on a jet of righteous fury, as if it is some sort of comment on her poor DH, or her choice of partner. As if these cautions are purely born out of other women, unlike her, making a poor choice.

Totally 100% agree with this.

susiesuelou · 30/03/2023 20:35

It also takes experience to comprehend the level of drudge work in parenthood, chores in a household of two are much more manageable than the work that comes with a baby and it ramps up more when they start eating, leaving toys everywhere, wiping paint on the walls etc.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 this!

susiesuelou · 30/03/2023 20:43

OP, I think your thread title doesn't match the comments in your OP.

People aren't saying those things because they're assuming fathers are shit. They're saying them because they know that having a newborn is fucking chaos and makes your life flip upside down and inside out for a good while. So regardless of your partner's competence or otherwise, it can knock literally everything out of whack. Being prepared for that is helpful. I was so pleased I had meal prepped before put baby arrived, as neither DH or I could be arsed with cooking in those first few weeks, we were just exhausted from so little sleep every single night!

My advice: take the advice. You'll be glad you did.

2023a · 30/03/2023 21:08

susiesuelou · 30/03/2023 20:43

OP, I think your thread title doesn't match the comments in your OP.

People aren't saying those things because they're assuming fathers are shit. They're saying them because they know that having a newborn is fucking chaos and makes your life flip upside down and inside out for a good while. So regardless of your partner's competence or otherwise, it can knock literally everything out of whack. Being prepared for that is helpful. I was so pleased I had meal prepped before put baby arrived, as neither DH or I could be arsed with cooking in those first few weeks, we were just exhausted from so little sleep every single night!

My advice: take the advice. You'll be glad you did.

I think you should read the thread, or at least OP’s comments.

Genevie82 · 30/03/2023 21:20

@Mixkle

This. Thank god someone’s offered some realism to this smug post. Come back in 2 years time and let us all know how your plans have gone when you’ve actually experienced being a mother… talk about idealistic!

Genevie82 · 30/03/2023 21:24

@Squamata

This is the point entirely, well said.

Mrsmozza123 · 30/03/2023 21:27

You’ll both be fucked looking after the baby.
my husband was amazing but we were both thankful for my freezer meals so I was grateful for the advice.
why don’t you suggest people do the things that they are suggesting so that they can help you out.

susiesuelou · 30/03/2023 21:32

@2023a

Haven't got time for that, hopefully that's ok with you.

susiesuelou · 30/03/2023 21:32

Genevie82 · 30/03/2023 21:24

@Squamata

This is the point entirely, well said.

Agreed

DappledThings · 30/03/2023 21:33

Genevie82 · 30/03/2023 21:20

@Mixkle

This. Thank god someone’s offered some realism to this smug post. Come back in 2 years time and let us all know how your plans have gone when you’ve actually experienced being a mother… talk about idealistic!

Saying "my husband is a competent adult who can cook and use the washing machine so despite the fact we'll both be tired I assume he won't lose the ability to do either of these things or turn into a selfish duck who refuses to" isn't idealistic. It's pretty much the bare minimum that anyone ought to be able to expect.

I never had anyone say to me that everything in the house would go to shot when we had our first baby because nobody I know thinks my husband is useless. And so I've never felt the need to suggest the same to anyone else.

I've never even considered the idea that any of my male friends would stop pulling their weight when a baby arrived because none of them are dicks either.

DangerousAlchemy · 30/03/2023 21:39

If you DH has 12 wks paternity then you have nothing to worry about! My DH went back to work 6 days after our first child was born (19 years ago) & then proceeded to leave house at 7 30 am & arrive home about 6.30/7pm. So yes - I had to do everything on my own & by the time DH got home the baby was fast asleep. So cooking/shopping/cleaning etc were a nightmare in those first few weeks & I did the lion's share during the week. I was up most of the night BF too so was utterly exhausted. People who say having a baby can be split 50/50 between the Mum & Dad are being a bit too optimistic imo especially if the baby is exclusively BF. Good luck though - you'll muddle through like most couples do 💖