What the heck is a grammer school?

[BlackBarbies]

Posting here for traffic!

Born and raised in South West London and still live here now. I’ve never heard of a grammar school until joining MN a couple of years ago.

Is it a primary school, is it a secondary school? Is it private or public? If it’s public, then why is it called a grammer school? Is it only available for certain types of children or something? I literally have no clue what a grammer school is so I’m happy to be enlightened!

Also, are there any in SW London? I’m genuinely intrigued as to how I’ve never come across one before

The ‘opportunity for clever kids from poorer backgrounds’ is def not true in my area. Local comp has 40+% kids on FSM, whilst the grammar school is 2%. Private tutoring is big business and can definitely coach more average children to pass, it’s well-known the grammar school is mainly middle-class wealthier kids, the disparity lives on.

@thing47 there are no GCSE subjects which are magically open to pupils at private or grammar schools but denied to those at a comprehensive or a secondary modern

Latin? Ancient Greek?

obviously the exam board wouldn't refuse to enter a non-privileged child, but I doubt many non-selective schools offer these subjects. Similarly but with a slightly higher chance that a few non-selective schools might offer them, perhaps Japanese, Mandarin, Futher Mathematics (for pupils who will get top grade easily for the normal maths) and less mainstream sciences like Astronomy.

But then again there are some subjects that exist as GCSEs that a lot of selective schools won't be teaching at all, e.g. Hospitality, Media Studies, Sociology.

It just varies so much. My GS educated children were not offered Latin or Ancient Greek. They were offered Media studies (at A level at least), DT, food tech, textiles. Possibly sociology, I can't remember as none of them did it.

Sorry you're missing my point, I obviously wasn't clear enough.

What I meant was there aren't any subjects which DCs at comprehensive or secondary modern schools are forbidden to take. There may of course be restrictions based on what a school offers, but there aren't any subjects which pupils cannot take purely because of the type of school they are at, if that makes more sense.

Of course you are right to say that Greek is much less likely to be offered at a comprehensive (though DD2 did further maths at her not terribly good secondary modern, she took maths in Y10 and further maths in Y11, and she's not really a mathmatician, though she is a scientist).

I did Latin at comprehensive. It was in the 80s though!

I did Latin at my comp - but it was pretend Latin, mostly in English, maybe once a week. The independent school I moved to approached Latin like an Olympic sport - deadly serious, practised every day. I had a lot of catching up to do but left with an A at O’ Level. (Very proud moment!)

Sorry, no grammar school relevance!

My sixth form friend was very poorly served by the school we both attended (then just a ‘good’ grammar, now a superselective). She was, looking back, almost certainly dyspraxic with very poor spatial abilities, and she could not master O level maths (CSE was not offered), despite being highly verbally intelligent. I also suspect she has a form of ASD. She did eventually get GCSE maths and science in later life (she wasn’t deemed bright enough for the O level sciences, which we were allowed, even encouraged (!) back then, to drop entirely). But between all that and a physical health condition, she has never had a paid job.

And by her parents

To be fair, her mother died of cancer when we were still in sixth form, and her (relatively elderly) father was well meaning but ineffectual. Besides, in the early 80s a degree was still seen as the passport to high paid employment and discrimination was open and rife.

😂SO sorry! I will try to be clearer in future. And can I say how much I have enjoyed your good-humoured and sensible posts here - it's been a really informative and entertaining thread. Friendly hugs!

I live in a county with lots of private schools and grammar schools. I went to my local grammar back when everyone did the test. There are 2 others walking distance from where I currently live. Children travel from all over to go to them - you don't have to live in the county to attend. Only one of my own kids passed the elective 11+ test and then still chose to attend the local comp instead. I think it's easy to forget not all areas in UK have grammar schools.