What the heck is a grammer school?

[BlackBarbies]

Posting here for traffic!

Born and raised in South West London and still live here now. I’ve never heard of a grammar school until joining MN a couple of years ago.

Is it a primary school, is it a secondary school? Is it private or public? If it’s public, then why is it called a grammer school? Is it only available for certain types of children or something? I literally have no clue what a grammer school is so I’m happy to be enlightened!

Also, are there any in SW London? I’m genuinely intrigued as to how I’ve never come across one before

No it wasn’t.

So this is Huddersfield grammar. The type of school is independent school

Selective state secondary schools. Used to be widespread, with a more academic focus than others (secondary moderns) with a view to university entrance. Tye entrwmce exam was/is the 11 plus
. Many areas moved to mixed ability comprehensive schools in the 1970s. Kent still had grammar schools. Some old grammar schools still retain their historical name, but work on a comprehensive model.

I also grew in in SW London!

There are grammars in SW London & plenty there were once grammars but are no longer but still do selective places.

Some very old private schools ( like Eton) were called Public schools because they weren't church schools ( ie not just for the training of priests ) I think for clarity they should just be called private schools these days as that is what they are

Some private schools have grammar in their name to confuse things.

There is not ONE definition of a grammer school that includes fee paying schools

They do yes!

I'm in Scotland and we don't have them here either.

It always confuses me why the probate schools are called state schools too. To me it would make sense for council run schools to be the state schools

A school can be a private school and a grammar school. Grammar schools are selective schools - they can be state or private.

I remember someone telling me when I was younger that it was for intelligent children whose parents couldn’t afford private school. I can’t for the life of me remember who it was.

I'm not in the UK so had no idea. I'm glad @BlackBarbies asked, and that some people actually answered the question.

As I understand it the simple answer to why public schools means fee paying is roughly this.
It’s the medieval period, someone sets up a school for six poor scholars from the town as an act of charity. Later on the school is expanded and as well as the original scholars begins to take sons of better off people from further afield, for money. The school is therefore public because you don’t have to be local or needy to go there.

They are not a grammar

look on any and every definition of a grammar school and the common thread is…. State selective

State grammar schools gave working class children the chance of a top class education until the Labour government of the late 60s/early 70s decided that every state school pupil should have a shit education regardless of their intelligence, do abolished them

Bristol Grammar School is an independent day school. It takes boys and girls from 4-18.

So SW London state grammars

Tiffin
Tiffin girls
Wilson's
Wallington
Wally girls
Nonsuch

Some in Bexley, Barnet & Bromley too. They tend to have the best results in league tables.

Lots of people send their child to a prep in order to access a grammar place.

Special education setting for academically gifted children who gain entry by way of an entrance exam. It used to be a social leveller but what has happened in areas with catchment areas is they have caused real inequality of access due to wealthy families buying homes in the catchment area and paying tutors to get their, distinctly average, children in.

On paper they're a brilliant idea, but not all counties have mastered the execution. Every county with grammar schools also does their entry slightly different so there is no national standard 11+ or national standard grammar school.

For the posters asking how I’ve never heard of a grammer school, I’ve just clicked on the link provided by a poster and the closest ones are in Kingston and Sutton. Seeing as I’m in the Brixton/Stockwell area of SW, this is quite a way away!

I’ve never had to be in these areas so I have no clue about the schools there. Thanks to the people that have answered nicely. So when children are in primary school, does everyone do the 11+ exam or will some parents ask for their kids to do it to see if they pass the test? How does that bit work?

Also to the poster who asked why am I interested. I always see posts about grammer schools (there’s one in active right now) and I just don’t understand what I’m reading. I didn’t understand if it was a private school or what

Which goes against the whole original ethos of grammar schools. The idea was to increase social mobility and give opportunity to the brightest children. My dad was born in 1945, his mum was a widow, they lived in a council house and were very poor. My dad passed the 11+ went to the grammar school and became a doctor. No prep school, 11+ coaching etc he nearly couldn't go because of the cost of the uniform. Grammar schools are now mainly the reserve of the very middle class and in my opinion should be abolished.

Independent schools that have 'Grammar' in the name are not Grammar Schools. Grammar schools are non- fee paying selective schools.
Eg in Kingston, Tiffin Boys is a Grammar School but Kingston Grammar School which is literally opposite is not a Grammar School!
Easy!

The 163 grammar schools in England are the only state-funded schools in England that are permitted to select their entire pupil intake by general academic ability

Government grammar fact sheet may 2022

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1077816/Grammar_Schools_-_Schools_Bill_Factsheet.pdf

I wasn’t completely sure what a grammar school was either.
There are none in my county apparently.

I know my dad passed his 11+ and went to a ‘posh’ school but assumed it was fee paying as his parents were reasonably wealthy.

im in Kent - here you have to register to do the 11+, they are held at the primary school, but you have to opt in. Here it’s called the Kent test, not the 11+ anymore (mainly because it’s held the first week of term in year 6, so most kids are still 10).

Not sure if other areas the primary school can enter you /everyone is automatically put in for it.

Not sure if is the same now but it used to be that in some grammar school areas every child took the 11+, eg Kent and Birmingham.

Different in areas like Kingston and Sutton where each grammar has a different exam so parents will choose. Also 11+ is taken for independent schools- again, parents choice.