What the heck is a grammer school?

[BlackBarbies]

Posting here for traffic!

Born and raised in South West London and still live here now. I’ve never heard of a grammar school until joining MN a couple of years ago.

Is it a primary school, is it a secondary school? Is it private or public? If it’s public, then why is it called a grammer school? Is it only available for certain types of children or something? I literally have no clue what a grammer school is so I’m happy to be enlightened!

Also, are there any in SW London? I’m genuinely intrigued as to how I’ve never come across one before

Yes, she has remained remarkably good-humoured and polite throughout, in the face of a lot of needless provocation!

@1offnamechange get a fucking life. My good God🤣

For your information Kent also has grammar schools - there are 4 in Dartford for example - and some of those may be easier to get to than south-west London.

Seeing as I first started hearing about the term grammar school on MN. I really have no clue why I’m not allowed to make a post asking what it is on the very site that I found out about it. Posts have died down now so I’ll stop encouraging the unnecessary posts.

Thanks again peeps!

I can understand why OP hasn’t heard of them. Where I live there aren’t any. Everyone in the town goes to the one secondary. Or they might go to the one catholic in another town that it’s for several towns in the area. No competition for secondary places really unless you live in a neighbouring town and wouldn’t want to go to your local school then they can apply if spaces.

I’m a teacher and stayed in another small city when I graduated. My y6 class could apply to one of 4 secondary schools (other options also available further out of town). There was the grammar which took all the very able kids who passed their 11+. Then there was the Church of England school. They also take a small% based on ability if not baptised. So those who weren’t quite grammar school ability light get in here. It’s deemed a ‘nicer’ school. Then there’s the catholic school. Baptised catholics. Then the regular comp/secondary. Unfortunately back then the comp had a bad rep. Partly because their top ability kids were actually middle ability kids in their primary schools. But because the top kids were creamed off for the grammar or the Church of England the main comp was left with the middle ability kids and below. So they often didn’t get wonderful exam grades and often had issues around behaviour. For this reason some families either went for tutoring to get their kids into the grammar or church on ability or baptised into a particular faith to get into one of those schools (despite never setting foot in a church).

I had my children back where I was brought up - one high school choice. Their dad, originally from uni city, couldn’t understand this one choice and kept asking about the grammar school!! We don’t have one. We do have a very expensive boys or girls day and boarding school less than 10 miles away. He even suggested trying for scholarships!! Wasn’t for me though!! I guess many people where I live won’t really know about state grammar schools. Most were done away with in the 70s or earlier when the old grammar/secondary modern/tenchical schools/comps were done away with.

Same experience here. I didn't particularly enjoy my time at Grammar school as I was never really all that academically minded, but as a very shy, dorky type the local comp would have been absolute hell. Bullying, drugs and exclusion were all rife at the comp, whilst non existent at the Grammar.

Quite @celticprincess, we live in the south of the country, DD2 went to a university in the midlands and the 2 women who were to become her best friends were both from (different) large cities in the north. Neither had heard of grammar schools because – guess what – neither of those cities have them. It's really not rocket science to understand why it's a concept not everyone is familiar with.

@BlackBarbies there's nothing wrong with your thread at all – I've found it interesting even though I knew about grammar schools before and have actually had some of my DCs at some of them. It's a more complicated subject than some people realise, as you've probably dicovered…

Years ago, grammar schools were commonplace. And they were exactly as described ie selective state schools. Then the comprehensive system displaced many of them ie without the 11 plus selection process. My understanding is that some went private and retained the name such as Kirkham Grammar where I live now.

My son went to Stretford Grammar, in a region where grammar schools and state selection were retained.

Personally I wish they kept the state selective system.

I love both Booths, I used the one in Ilkley, and Whole Foods, my favourite being in Santa Fe, all my bags for life come from Whole Foods.

Parents think they children are more especial and more intelligent than the average when they pass 11+ haha
I paid some tutors to help my son and he passed, not that he is not intelligent but I thought that it would help him to go to the school he wanted. As an ex Teacher I aways thought that the learning in the UK is shockingly weak anyway. I’ve seen children learning basically the same thing all over the whole primary years :(
Trust me, going to a normal
school or a grammar school makes no difference at all. Maybe expectations are higher but it will always depend on the individual and their willingness to succeed.

Much easier in Scotland- we have private schools (fee paying) and schools that are council run 📘📚✏️📖🚌😊

Fortunately,even in non Grammar school area s there are good and not si.Good schools I went to.a comprehensive in the 80, my son is currently in year 11 at a comprehensive,neither of us experienced anything like those things you describe ,the private school that was literally next door to my comprehensive however had a massive drug problem....

For context in Yorkshire there are 6 grammar schools in total compared to Kent which has more than 30…. It’s quite obviously why some people might of never heard of them.

I grew up poor working class in a “broken home” in the 80s/90s, but passed my 12+ (it was a year later in those days) and went to grammar school. I’m the first ever in my family to go to university. Totally changed my life chances, as it was originally intended to.

However I agree that these days too many wealthy / pushy parents are shoehorning their academically average and already-privileged kids in with tutoring. My Y5 boy knows the 11+ is coming up in the autumn term, and has declared he doesn’t want to take it as he wants to go to the local comp with all his mates. Fine by me as he is academically average. If he were really academic or gifted I’d try to convince him but otherwise nope.

@BlackBarbies to answer your question, in my county all Y6 children are automatically registered to take the 11+ on the same day every year. Usually October time. Parents can then choose to opt their child out.

State grammar schools are actually relatively cash-poor compared to state comprehensives as they have far fewer Pupil Premium pupils, top ups etc.

Thank you!

State run school who years ago used to only let in 'clever' kids. In my time it was just a secondary school pretending it's reputation is the same as it used to be (the last old prof types retired in my 1st couple of years).

Might be it's reverted back....but I doubt it.

Private schools are the same as public schools - public in the sense you can go if you have the money rather than being granted a place by the local authority. Private in the sense you pay for it privately. That said, the phrase 'public school' is sometimes used to mean the grandest of private schools - ie Eton, Winchester, Malborough, Rugby etc. Though confusingly people who have gone to a public school are said to be privately educated. One would never use the phrase publically educated.

Ah come on OP I think you have jumped the shark a bit. I live in one of the areas you mentioned and can get to Brixton on a bus easily in about 20-25 minutes (which is no time at all in London)

What bus?!😅 it takes me around 35mins to get to main Tooting from my house and I live on Brixton Hill!! How does it take you 20/25mins haha

37 route. I just checked on Citymapper and it would take me 30 minutes from now and that’s with heavy traffic on route

So normal traffic would be less

Rude.

No. If it’s private it’s not a grammar school. The school I attended was selective, private and confusingly had grammar in its title but it wasn’t a grammar school. I don’t think it ever was a state school. Loads of comprehensives have grammar in name as used to be grammar schools (selective) in past.

Hi op, sorry you've had to endure so many numpties on here. My daughter is at grammar. She went to a state primary and chose to sit 11+ (about half the class opted in) . We tutored for 1yr (Yr 5), because schools aren't allowed to prepare them for the exam as its not national curriculum. They get 4 papers on verbal and non verbal reasoning and maths. You have to pass all 4 to pass overall. Parents could tutor themselves but tbh most of us couldn't make any sense of the reasoning papers so all pupils I knew who took it went to a specialist 11+ tutor once a week or fortnight to prepare for the exam.

The exam is alot of peer pressure for the kids and mine was v worried her friends would pass and she wouldn't. Luckily they all did. We tried to assure them that it's just an assessment to help decide which school is best suited to their needs and to give the broadest possible choice. Now she's there, it is an academic environment but there's a group mindset to do well and achieve so they all support each other to do well. Hers is one of the more easy going grammars, others apply alot more pressure and have reportedly more issues with mental health etc as a result. Also may have already been mentioned as I haven't read all posts but, in our area at least, all the grammars are single sex schools.

No. If it’s private it’s not a grammar school.

Of course it can be.
Grammar schools can be state or private.