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Original poster

What the heck is a grammer school?

511 replies

BlackBarbies · 27/03/2023 15:29

Posting here for traffic!

Born and raised in South West London and still live here now. I’ve never heard of a grammar school until joining MN a couple of years ago.

Is it a primary school, is it a secondary school? Is it private or public? If it’s public, then why is it called a grammer school? Is it only available for certain types of children or something? I literally have no clue what a grammer school is so I’m happy to be enlightened!

Also, are there any in SW London? I’m genuinely intrigued as to how I’ve never come across one before

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
MyopicBunny · 28/03/2023 09:25

Yes, anyone moaning and saying google it - you're the ones who are choosing to click on a thread that you apparently want to complain about 😂

Jackiebrambles · 28/03/2023 09:27

MyopicBunny · 28/03/2023 09:25

Yes, anyone moaning and saying google it - you're the ones who are choosing to click on a thread that you apparently want to complain about 😂

I know, do they post the same thing on the thousands of posts about how much infants should sleep/feed etc?!

CurlewKate · 28/03/2023 09:32

It's also important to know so that you don't move to and get committed to an area, then discover yourself caught up in the whole awful, divisive, unfair maelstrom that is the grammar school system.

slamfightbrightlight · 28/03/2023 09:35

CurlewKate · 28/03/2023 09:32

It's also important to know so that you don't move to and get committed to an area, then discover yourself caught up in the whole awful, divisive, unfair maelstrom that is the grammar school system.

I don’t think many people are in a position to make decisions about where they live to that degree - far more likely to be driven by work and caring commitments, and cost of housing.

CurlewKate · 28/03/2023 09:39

@slamfightbrightlight That's what I mean. You can end up committed to an area and not find out that it's got grammar schools until it's too late.

MuddlerInLaw · 28/03/2023 09:42

It’s great that you’re taking an interest in this stuff now, @BlackBarbies!

I have to say I’m inclined to agree with @mathanxiety. The socio-economic structure of English society is something everyone living here ought to take an interest in - and if you have children you absolutely owe it to them to make yourself aware of every possible aspect of the educational system. And you need to connect that, mentally, to where power lies and how it is acquired. As well as asking yourself more generally how you might enable your child to thrive intellectually and emotionally.

I’m on MN because more than a decade ago I was researching prep and public schools (traditional primary and secondary fee paying schools, mostly boarding) and a google link brought me here. Amidst a whole lot of uninformed nonsense I found a core of knowledgable posters and threads that updated and reassured me on what I already knew.

My family is chronically impecunious. (House full of books; empty pockets.) We are not white. We all have degrees, plus, plus and have lived all over the country. Because we knew what we wanted and how to apply, the youngest generation has benefitted from 100% bursaries through primary and secondary school. Not because we want them to become Tory politicians, not because we wanted to separate them from their locality, not because we thought it would guarantee particular A’ Level grades - but simply because it would give them a day to day quality of school life that we could not otherwise provide.

So, yes, you may not care about a particular type of school - but if you know about them all you can make an informed choice.

x2boys · 28/03/2023 09:53

MuddlerInLaw · 28/03/2023 09:42

It’s great that you’re taking an interest in this stuff now, @BlackBarbies!

I have to say I’m inclined to agree with @mathanxiety. The socio-economic structure of English society is something everyone living here ought to take an interest in - and if you have children you absolutely owe it to them to make yourself aware of every possible aspect of the educational system. And you need to connect that, mentally, to where power lies and how it is acquired. As well as asking yourself more generally how you might enable your child to thrive intellectually and emotionally.

I’m on MN because more than a decade ago I was researching prep and public schools (traditional primary and secondary fee paying schools, mostly boarding) and a google link brought me here. Amidst a whole lot of uninformed nonsense I found a core of knowledgable posters and threads that updated and reassured me on what I already knew.

My family is chronically impecunious. (House full of books; empty pockets.) We are not white. We all have degrees, plus, plus and have lived all over the country. Because we knew what we wanted and how to apply, the youngest generation has benefitted from 100% bursaries through primary and secondary school. Not because we want them to become Tory politicians, not because we wanted to separate them from their locality, not because we thought it would guarantee particular A’ Level grades - but simply because it would give them a day to day quality of school life that we could not otherwise provide.

So, yes, you may not care about a particular type of school - but if you know about them all you can make an informed choice.

Well you can't if you don't live in a Grammar school area,of which there are very few ,and if you live in a Grammar schoil area ,you can't just assume your child will.get in they have to.pass the eleven plus.

Jarstastic · 28/03/2023 09:56

Sorry just scanned the thread on my phone so not quoting the posters. Someone said Kent test is called that not 11+ because it’s taken when most children are 10. That’s the same age as 11+. The name refers to the education level rather than the age you take it.

In Kent at least, I believe 150 places are reserved for those who got the highest marks, regardless of where they live. So you can get in from out of area. I knew a girl from south east London who went to one in Kent. I was recently on a train just after school time through Kent recently and was amazed at the number of grammar school children who got on and went through to London Bridge. I’d expected the last to get off at Orpington. Presumably they were changing trains at London Bridge, or perhaps going on a tube. Many were of Afro Caribbean background.

I went to a grammar school in a different area back in the 1980s. I had friends who travelled in from other areas and I remember my dad saying they must be particularly bright. But I didn’t register the reason then.

MuddlerInLaw · 28/03/2023 10:01

I was making a much wider point which you appear to have missed.

Obviously if you know grammar schools exist, and discover you don’t live in a grammar school area - you then decide whether that matters to you, or not. And act accordingly.

MuddlerInLaw · 28/03/2023 10:02

Replying to @x2boys !

fafffaff · 28/03/2023 10:12

OP are you sure you didn't want to just kick off the usual debate about Grammar Schools?

I do take the point that a lot of questions on here could be Googled but really .... isn't this a bit like asking "What is a supermarket?"

x2boys · 28/03/2023 10:18

fafffaff · 28/03/2023 10:12

OP are you sure you didn't want to just kick off the usual debate about Grammar Schools?

I do take the point that a lot of questions on here could be Googled but really .... isn't this a bit like asking "What is a supermarket?"

There are supermarkets in every town ,village ,city in the country ,the same can't be said for Grammar school.,,I would have to travel 20,30,40, miles to find one ,depending on direction ,whereas I can walk to at least five different supermarkets,and even people who live in very rural.areas that have to.travel to.supermarkets ,everyone knows what they are as everyone has to eat ,it's not really the same at at all.

weirdoboelady · 28/03/2023 10:28

Jarstastic · 28/03/2023 09:56

Sorry just scanned the thread on my phone so not quoting the posters. Someone said Kent test is called that not 11+ because it’s taken when most children are 10. That’s the same age as 11+. The name refers to the education level rather than the age you take it.

In Kent at least, I believe 150 places are reserved for those who got the highest marks, regardless of where they live. So you can get in from out of area. I knew a girl from south east London who went to one in Kent. I was recently on a train just after school time through Kent recently and was amazed at the number of grammar school children who got on and went through to London Bridge. I’d expected the last to get off at Orpington. Presumably they were changing trains at London Bridge, or perhaps going on a tube. Many were of Afro Caribbean background.

I went to a grammar school in a different area back in the 1980s. I had friends who travelled in from other areas and I remember my dad saying they must be particularly bright. But I didn’t register the reason then.

OMG yes, this has triggered me. In order to go to my school, I had to travel 90 minutes each way on the SE Railway system every day from the age of 12, alone. I sometimes got lost. There was no flexibility in those days, no Google maps to show you an alternative route when your train was cancelled. I sometimes resorted to travelling into central London, turning round and coming back to the station I needed, because it was much quicker. Terrified all the time I would be arrested as my ticket didn't cover that option. The timetable changed every year and you had to work out a new route (which varied with the time of day, so after school stuff meant you had to work out another whole new route). At its worst, I had 4 different trains into school, changing platform 3 times. Infinite possibilities for trains not to connect. I left home at 7:30 and got home occasionally at 4:45 - an ideal day! - but more frequently at 6:00 or later, then had 3 hours' homework. My mother took me to the doctor because I was tired all the time, and was laughed out of the surgery.....

fafffaff · 28/03/2023 10:30

Ok, well "What is a Morrisons?" then. We don't have those in my area. Google or start a thread?

thing47 · 28/03/2023 10:41

@fafffaff the reason the OP's question is a reasonable one is because – as we've seen on this thread – it's quite nuanced. There are lots of different educational systems across the country, and even grammar schools aren't all alike as there are catchment area grammar schools, super-selective grammar schools, schools which have 'grammar' in their name even though they aren't, schools which don't have 'grammar' in their names even though they are, and single-sex and mixed grammar schools.

Honestly, it really is a perfectly reasonable question from someone unfamiliar with the whole concept. But if it offends you so much, perhaps just move on to another thread that you might find more interesting?

fafffaff · 28/03/2023 10:46

Ok, fair enough.

Ratatouille1 · 28/03/2023 10:53

@fafffaff
Nowt wrong with a supermarket thread either. Just pick the topics that interest you, ever heard of Booths😉?

fafffaff · 28/03/2023 10:59

Yes I have heard of Booths and I believe it's in Yorkshire - a bit like Wholefoods in London?

coldmarchmorn · 28/03/2023 11:02

fafffaff · 28/03/2023 10:59

Yes I have heard of Booths and I believe it's in Yorkshire - a bit like Wholefoods in London?

Originating and mostly in Lancashire, and not like Wholefoods.

bridgetreilly · 28/03/2023 11:04

Do you not have google, OP?

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 28/03/2023 11:17

Hbh17 · 27/03/2023 15:31

How can you not know?!
Secondary school if child passes 11 plus.
And it's "grammar" school.

To be honest, I didn't know until a couple of years ago. Huge parts of the country don't have them, everyone just goes to the Comprehensive ( or private)

RampantIvy · 28/03/2023 11:29

I wish posters would stop with the sarcasm.

Original poster
BlackBarbies · 28/03/2023 14:18

thing47 · 28/03/2023 10:41

@fafffaff the reason the OP's question is a reasonable one is because – as we've seen on this thread – it's quite nuanced. There are lots of different educational systems across the country, and even grammar schools aren't all alike as there are catchment area grammar schools, super-selective grammar schools, schools which have 'grammar' in their name even though they aren't, schools which don't have 'grammar' in their names even though they are, and single-sex and mixed grammar schools.

Honestly, it really is a perfectly reasonable question from someone unfamiliar with the whole concept. But if it offends you so much, perhaps just move on to another thread that you might find more interesting?

Thank you!!! As if I know what sort of debate grammar schools bring about. I really don’t spend that much time on MN to know what sort of topics piss people off. If it triggers you then just don’t open it!

As I’ve said, I’ve learned so much. It’s all super helpful especially when learning about peoples experiences

OP posts:
1offnamechange · 28/03/2023 15:52

BlackBarbies · 28/03/2023 09:24

I understand how Google works….

I could have Googled it but I didn’t. Seriously, get over it. It’s been far more helpful to go back and forth with people and hear others experiences

Show quote history

right but you clearly don't understand how google works because YOU SAID your reason for asking MN rather than googling was because:

  • Google is full of complex sentences and complex words
  • You didn’t even know how to spell grammar correctly
  • You didn’t know what a prep school is

I'm not exaggerating, or putting words in your mouth or making things up. Those are the reasons YOU gave. (your 9:07 post)
Yet half a second proves all 3 of those reasons are bullshit because typing in 'what is a grammer school' into google takes you straight to a clearly written straightforward wikipedia page, despite the misspelling, and with no need to cross reference (or mention) prep schools!

If you prefer to ask questions via a forum because you think you'd get a clearer or more contextual response, or to start a debate, or to get personal experience that's up to you. I'm not the MN police, you can start a thread for whatever reason you want.

But if you give made up, ridiculous reasons for your decision don't expect people to not call you out on them!

Ratatouille1 · 28/03/2023 16:51

@1offnamechange you really are quite rude. I much prefer @BlackBarbies lighthearted and good humoured approach to this!