What the heck is a grammer school?

[BlackBarbies]

Posting here for traffic!

Born and raised in South West London and still live here now. I’ve never heard of a grammar school until joining MN a couple of years ago.

Is it a primary school, is it a secondary school? Is it private or public? If it’s public, then why is it called a grammer school? Is it only available for certain types of children or something? I literally have no clue what a grammer school is so I’m happy to be enlightened!

Also, are there any in SW London? I’m genuinely intrigued as to how I’ve never come across one before

I am being 100% serious here.

You need to know all this stuff when you have children, and I honestly believe the sooner you start, the better. My relatives and friends didn't have children when they first emigrated to the UK but moved to areas with grammars as soon as they could. You can be sure that other people are observing, researching, and using the system to benefit their children.

It's quite astonishing to me that you seem to know so little about your own country's history and social organisation. I'll put that down to the curriculum in the schools you attended - but are you not at all curious on a personal level about the fact that a huge number of people with similar accents seem to gravitate toward one particular political party and seem to dominate Cabinet positions when in government? Same goes for all the plummy accents among political journalists? How could that have happened?

There's a limited number of grammar schools because Labour changed them in favour of comprehensives.
In 1968 when I passed for grammar most children took the eleven plus.
There were 1200 grammar schools in England and Wales at the time.
Working class dc were given a chance to better themselves through a grammar school education.
We live in a more equal society now so grammar schools are not necessary but they had there place at a time when class defined your future regardless of academic ability.
Oh and even in the 60's parents tutored their dc to pass, I had to do a test paper weekly at home age 10. Tutoring dc only gives them the advantage of time and familiarity with the test.
You still have to understand the questions and answer correctly.

@mathanxiety your sentiments don't make sense. Some children aren't bright enough to get into super selective schools but that does not exclude them from having a well paid career. I know many examples who earn more than people who went to university.

There are different kinds of intelligence. And you seem to be saying that anyone with any sense should be trying to get their children into one of less than 200 schools in the UK for them to do well in life which is a very narrow perspective.

Is it really necessary to sneer and make snarky comments to the OP?

I went to a grammar school from year 7 through to year 13 and was told by my head of 6th form that they were surprised any university would touch me with such horrific grades!

I got into an RG university with AAC grades.

If I ever have children, I would want them to have an English education over the system of the country I'm in now, but I'd sooner send them private than to a grammar. A grammar education is not worth the destruction in one's self confidence and self worth.

Surely that’s just a bad school? Not all schools are created equal, the same can be said of private schools and comprehensives? I had a shit experience in my comp, awful but wouldn’t avoid sending kids there unless I looked at the school individually and made that choice.

You say you’ve not been interested until now, which is fair enough, but why did you not Google this instead of losing your tag at people on mumsnet?

It was one of the best state schools in the area and was regularly oversubscribed due to its attainment.

I definitely wished I'd stayed private though personally.

You can't post any thread on Mumsnet any more without people being nasty. It's pathetic tbh.

but why did you not Google this instead of losing your tag at people on mumsnet?

Probably in response to some of the rather unpleasant replies on this thread. A quick Google will give the bare facts, but other posters' experiences have been very helpful.

We had 5 children in our working class family in the 50s and 60s. As others have said, every child took an exam at age 10/11 those who passed went to the grammar schools the rest went to a secondary modern school. The grammar schools were more academic, but we were streamed at the grammar school, and the lower streams did more vocational classes, woodwork and metalwork for the boys, home economics for the girls. Our local boys grammar was part boarding school too, with a lot of the boarders having military families overseas. Of our 5 siblings 4 went to the grammar school. 2 of those went onto uni, at a time when a small proportion went to uni. 1 became a company director, 2 became scientists working for the MOD and I was one of the first A level management trainees with a large retailer and then ran my own business. My brother who didn't go to grammar trained as a plumber and finished his working life as a milkman. The grammar system has been much criticised, but it gave 4 working class oiks the opportunity to have interesting careers. If you watch the film 'If' with Malcolm Mcdowell that was very like the boys grammar in our town in the 60s. The girls grammar was a little more modern.

You need to know all this stuff when you have children, and I honestly believe the sooner you start, the better. My relatives and friends didn't have children when they first emigrated to the UK but moved to areas with grammars as soon as they could. You can be sure that other people are observing, researching, and using the system to benefit their children.

I don't think you realise how vanishingly rare grammar schools are these days - you could research the UK education system fairly extensively using things like the DfE and Ofsted websites and still not realise they exist/ what they are.

Grammar schools don't exist in the region I'm from - they didn't exist in my parent's day, they didn't exist in my day and they don't exist in my (hypothetical) child's day. That's three generations of complete irrelevance. Knowing about grammar schools has added absolutely zero benefit to my life.

They didn't wear wing collars, but very close. The upper 6th form were the prefects. They had to wear caps with tassels to denote which house they were in, at all times even out of school. In the 10 years or so my brothers were there, 1961 to 71 the standards and discipline dropped dramatically. The head was an ex prisoner of the Japanese at Singapore and the history teacher was the brother of William Golding the author. At the girls school a previous head girl became the first female PM. Anyway, here is If.

Some strange assertions on this thread:
Mine were never offered Latin or Greek at their grammar school.
It's not mainly London. Buckinghamshire & Kent are still grammar school counties, with some grammar schools in Dorset, Devon, Birmingham, Essex etc etc.

London doesn’t have grammar schools, OP is from London!! Surrounding counties do though so some London kids travel (miles) to them

You can research all.you want but it a a bit presumptuous to.buy a house in a Grammar school.area on the assumption that your not yet born children will.pass the eleven plus ,it's a bit pointless if they don't isn't it ?
and there are so.few Grammar school,areas left any way ,there assent been a Grammar school system.in my town and surrounding towns since the 1970,st
there are some Good schools and not so.Good schools just like everywhere.

But Bromley/Beckenham/Bexley/Sutton/Kingston at all London ??

@RampantIvy I don't think that particular poster will be back for a while as she appears to live in the US, judging by her username and the timing of the majority of her posts. Don't you just loved being lectured about your country's education system by someone who doesn't live here and doesn't appear to know anything about how much it varies from area to area? 😂

Prior to having DCs most people I know live where they live for reasons of either work or family/friends. For example we moved to our current area pre-kids to support my dying MIL; turns out it's a grammar school area but I had no idea about that when we moved here because schools weren't on my radar then (wasn't even sure I could have kids). I'm pretty sure grammar schools weren't mentioned on the estate agents' literature!

It’s not that I haven’t been interested. I never even heard of a grammar school until joining MN.

Why does anyone post anything on here? Am I only meant to post things that are deemed as ‘Non-Googleable?’ Sometimes it’s easier to pick peoples brains and get them to explain something in a basic way.

Google is full of complex sentences and complex words. Seeing as I didn’t even know how to spell grammar correctly and didn’t know what a prep school is, how far do you think I would have got with my Google research?!

I’ve had so many helpful comments and I really have learnt so much from peoples experiences. I don’t know why some people are annoyed that I haven’t asked Google. Very weird!

The grammar system has been much criticised, but it gave 4 working class oiks the opportunity to have interesting careers.

It suits people who are natural academics and want to push themselves. Surely, like any other schools they suit some and not others?

Ok, point taken - I mean the more central London boroughs don’t!

Some of these comments are very weird and obviously not from someone that has any recent knowledge of grammar schools at all.

My daughter definitely is not learning latin at grammar although in year 7 my son did at his comp. It was only the top set that did it and the school dropped it as a subject the next year. The pressure to do well was definitely a lot stronger there than he feels now at grammar.

I also think that some people have quite negative views on grammar from their own time at one. When I was there in the 90's it was definitely a lot more pressure than it is now. It is completely different now, the school is very nurturing and it doesn't come across as any different to any other school.

letmegooglethat.com/?q=grammer+school

Even if you'd spelled it wrong googling would have taken you straight to the Wikipedia page for grammar schools....

I understand how Google works….

I could have Googled it but I didn’t. Seriously, get over it. It’s been far more helpful to go back and forth with people and hear others experiences

Successive Labour governments have attempted to abolish the 11+ exam and grammar schools, which used to be a part of the secondary education system throughout England and Wales.

Most grammar schools were merged with "secondary modern" schools (where all 11-year-olds who didn't pass the 11+ went) in the 1970s and 1980s to form new comprehensive schools but some local education authorities retained their grammar schools and children still sit the 11+ exam in their final year of primary school.