AIBU to think this man (who has undergone no transitioning) should be allow play on women's teams. Sick to my stomach this is happening.

[Mommymoments]

https://extra.ie/2022/09/09/news/transgender-gaa-player-speaks-out

This man (in red) has undergone no attempt to transition. Yet he's playing on women's GAA football teams in Ireland because he feels he's a woman.
Imagine him tackling a poor woman would have no chance. Prior to that he played women's rugby.
Why is this happening in women's sports, prisons, changing rooms, toilets.
Why are trans women's rights more important than ours.
This man (who is in no way a woman or even a trans woman) needs to play with a team where the rest of the players have penises too or else start his own trans league. Get out of women's sports & spaces.

https://twitter.com/SchoolAthletics/status/1638978785948192783/photo/1
Link to British schools stopping trans kids competing, cames minutes after the World Athletics announcement. Come on Ireland & follow suit!

@JackiePlace - I don't get the point you are trying to make here?

Are you trying to compare men competing against women in sports where they have a biological advantage to men and women consensually training together?

The two scenarios are poles apart.

And as for your last point- yes, I suspect many women are taking martial arts classes to help them defend themselves against men - I'm not sure the reverse is true.

NC, I wanted to add a personal experience to this thread.

My teenage daughter plays ladies hockey and there is an opposition player in their South East Oaks league who is a trans women. This player scored five goals over the two matches DD2 played in and it was just a horrible spectacle. They had so many physical advantages (speed, strength etc) over other female players - they stood out from the rest of their team. DD2 and some of the colts (U18) on their team (and some of the ladies too) were so deflated and angry after the game - it’s so hard to keep teenage girls engaged in sport, and going head to head with a biological man is so unfair.

Prior to the game, we were told there was a trans player and the ladies had to be their ‘most inclusive selves’ which is wrong on so many levels. I know the level of hockey is quite low, it’s Division 3 out of 5 or similar, so not national level - but ladies who play grass roots sport deserve the same respect and right to fair play as Olympians !

YANBU that trans women should be able to play sport - but that shouldn’t be competitively in women’s leagues, even at grass roots level. And particularly hockey, which has many opportunities to play mixed.

Honestly I don’t believe the trolls on Twitter posting a load of derogatory hatred about women and thugs who have punched women in the face at protests are representative of the average trans woman. I really don’t want to lower my own behaviour to match the worst individuals in a community. If you think of the people you know in real life who are trans are they anything like that? The few I know aren’t at all. They are decent, hardworking professionals who are feeling pretty worries at the moment about the way the world is. I honestly don’t know if they believe they actually can change sex as it’s not really a topic discussed at work but I’m confident you can hold gender critical beliefs, be appalled by the behaviour of individuals within a group without assuming that’s how everyone in the group thinks/acts.

I've seen a lot of people refer to men, like in the op as transmen.
Just a reminder that as per trans ideology, women who want to be men are transmen and men who want to be women are transwomen.

I feel it's important these words are widely understood as I do feel their meaning is deliberately evasive to play on people's ignorance.

Ifor example polls where the public deem 'transwomen in women's wards' fine might not actually be telling you what it seems on the surface. As the unclear language could mean participants incorrectly thought they were talking about natal women with beards not natal men with penis.
Of course the language is designed this way. To confuse and distort reality.

Nothing helpful to add but just wanted to say how glad I am this is being discussed on AIBU so that everyone can discuss/read openly. I know it comes up on the Feminism board but I always feel that’s a bit exclusive.

I really don’t want to lower my own behaviour to match the worst individuals in a community.

You've seen lots of women sending rape and decapitation threats then?

Perhaps those nice trans people should start campaigning for third spaces so that they can feel safe using toilets and changing rooms etc without using women's spaces.

I mean, it would be good if they could loudly denounce all the people who give the trans community a bad name, but they're not to blame for that behaviour any more than ordinary Muslims are to blame for ISIS.

However, it would be helpful if they could do something to show that they understand that their own rights, safety and dignity shouldn't come at the expense of ours.

This is a very good point.
I am not well versed in this area and when I read I have to keep reminding myself what the words mean.

This man (in red) has undergone no attempt to transition.

The 'clarification' in brackets reminded me of this!

Sharon Davies agrees with you. I doubt she will give up until there is fairness in female sport at all levels of competition.

twitter.com/sharrond62/status/1638974939901448192?s=20

I'm so sorry your daughter and team mates have been treated like this.

Sports bodies that do this are essentially saying to women and girls:

-you exist only to validate males
-the feelings of males are more important than anything else
-you must never say No to a male

The misogyny is just shameless. Why can't the liberal Left see it for what it is?

I lived in Australia for a while where netball is huge. I was part of a women's team which was all mainly for exercise, socialising and a bit of fun. The 'league' (not a league in the true sports sense) became mixed because "some boys were asking to play" and it was a University league so they bowed to the students' demands, so we then had all these mixed sex teams. You then have women aged between mainly 25 - 45 playing against young men who are stronger, fitter, faster. The game that finished it for us was when one of our team got a broken arm from basically being barged over by a man and we were beaten 42-nil. The 'mixed sex' team we were playing had two young women and five men. Their goal shooter and goal keepers were in the 6 foot tall bracket. Two of the guys also played aussie rules football so were totally ripped.

And before anyone says.....you should have just started your own woman-only league - why should we have had to??? Why couldn't it have just stayed as it was ie a woman's only league? It's so demoralising to have so many male apologists who are happy to run rough shod over their own sex.

I was replying to @PinkFlamingo888 post about being paired with a trans person at her judo class.

Honestly I don’t believe the trolls on Twitter posting a load of derogatory hatred about women and thugs who have punched women in the face at protests are representative of the average trans woman. I really don’t want to lower my own behaviour to match the worst individuals in a community. If you think of the people you know in real life who are trans are they anything like that? The few I know aren’t at all. They are decent, hardworking professionals who are feeling pretty worries at the moment about the way the world is. I honestly don’t know if they believe they actually can change sex as it’s not really a topic discussed at work but I’m confident you can hold gender critical beliefs, be appalled by the behaviour of individuals within a group without assuming that’s how everyone in the group thinks/acts.

So if these decent transpeople don’t want to be represented by these “trolls” as you call them, why aren’t they speaking out against it.? Unfortunately these individuals calling for women to be killed and raped are the public face of the gender ideology, and no amount of “well I know a really nice transwoman so just all stop being mean ok” is gonna cut it any more. As for lowering behaviours, how many rape threats, death threats and assaults on transpeople have you seen from gender critical feminists? How many women are invading transpeoples spaces demanding access? How many women are demanding language change for “inclusion”. They go low we go high is what got us into this mess.

You already had your own women only league.

The men should have started their own men only league!

I've also heard trans activists say we should campaign for "cis woman only" toilets and changing rooms.

We already did that once! Why don't you campaign for trans ones??

Forgot to add - I can see no real reason why these men wanted to play other than to humiliate women. They already played multiple sports and they were certainly not getting any exercise or competition playing us. In fact, the goal shooter and goal keeper probably took about 20 steps the whole game - literally just stood in their positions waiting to receive the next ball then score or save.

They were literally laughing at us - it was one of the most horrible experiences of my life - to see in action how some men view women.

If my DS was like that, I'd be so ashamed of him.

Nobody would be unreasonable if they object to him being on a women's team.

It's beyond unreasonable that be is allowed to be on one.

And 'transitioning' makes no difference whatsoever to that.

My daughter prefers boys clothing and short hair. She’s mistaken as a boy all the time and sometimes it bothers her but we’ve never suggested she can’t do as she pleases when it comes to her style and we’ve consistently told her that even though some people think it’s really important girls/boys only wear certain things, have certain hairstyles or like certain toys that’s just because they don’t understand that everyone is different and likes different things.

I've recently been rediscovering a bit of childhood nostalgia and watching some of the old Famous Five TV adaptations. I know there are some 'issues' with Enid Blyton, but for all the talk nowadays of censoring and rewriting 'outdated' children's books, I find it refreshing how George (in the FF) likes to embrace traditional/stereotypically masculine pursuits and characteristics, but at no time does she ever claim to actually BE a boy: she is very definitely a girl, but she is her own kind of girl - the individual that she wants to be (who happens to be female), which is surely the obvious route for everybody to take for themselves. Isn't it interesting how far we've 'progressed' from those days all those decades ago....

Sports bodies that do this are essentially saying to women and girls:

-you exist only to validate males
-the feelings of males are more important than anything else
-you must never say No to a male

And that encouraging women's participation in sport is not important.

Why can't the liberal Left see it for what it is?

Because they are so kiiiiind. Unless you're a woman of course, in which case the self-appointed guardians of liberality want you to fuck off back into your box. And I say that as a fairly lefty person who feels immensely let down by current left-wing politics.

Completely, no one is excluding trans from competing they just need to compete with their biological sex.
Also why can't they have their own trans events? Trans Olympics etc..
They need to stop trying to infiltrate women's sports & spaces.

If we take out of the equation biology and sex for a minute (not that we should)... but if we do....
If context and identity and feelings and experiences are EVERYTHING, all encompassing and meaningful, then trans women can never be women... they will always be TRANS women - because they share a unique identity, standing and position in the world, of transitioning and all the hurt and pain and difficulties that brings which women DO NOT share.
And women share their own history and past and shared experiences of being girls and women and everything it brings.

It is not anti trans to say trans women are not women.

Absolute cheek of them. I hate that term cis women... We are women!

I have long pondered this and conclude that the liberal left stands for misogyny.

They can't claim not to see it. The evidence is all there. Yet we still have labour politicians calling rapists SHE and claiming that babies are born without a sex.

Labour on women

The link is taken from another thread on the feminism boards.

I’m confident you can hold gender critical beliefs, be appalled by the behaviour of individuals within a group without assuming that’s how everyone in the group thinks/acts.

No one thinks that but the number of men who say they are women who do behave badly outnumber the trans people who just want to get on with their life.

We have been living with the GRA since 2004, if the trans community hadn't been colonised by an incel/MRA movement then we wouldn't even be discussing this because the number of people who the GRA applied to was tiny but the provisions for trans people made in both the GRA and EA have been exploited by men in ways that now put women and children at a disadvantage and in danger. I don't blame the trans people you know being worried, their movement has been hijacked, but rather than thinking women should shut up and accept the risks we now face they need to take it up with their MP.