To think DS would be better off getting a job rather than going to uni

[Goinganon321]

My son wants to go to uni but has no idea what to study. 75% of his cohort (non-selective state school) usually apply and go and he says it’s the norm.

He is taking English, Spanish and Sociology for A level (so no STEM) and will probably be predicted BBB. He does the bare minimum for his A-levels (no super-curricular stuff at all) so I question why he wants to go to uni.

AIBU to say he should take a year out, work and think about it? He says I am because working shifts in Maccy D’s for a year won’t change a thing and most of his friends don’t have a clue what they want to do for a career so are just choosing a degree related to their ‘best subject’ at A-level. Difference is that most of them are doing at least one STEM subject! DS doing a degree in humanities or Spanish not so useful in this day and age.

On the other hand, having him resentfully living here and working shifts for a year while all his (equally undecided) friends are at uni isn’t exactly an attractive prospect either…. Help!

A lot of universities are crying out for people to take MFL courses, so if he's keen on Spanish, and good at it, that could be a really good option for him and open up lots of potential careers. Please don't let your prejudice against non-STEM subjects hinder your DS's choices.

And of course it's completely true that for most 18/19 year old university IS lots of fun, and they DO grow their horizons and mature in a reasonably safe environment, and the uni experience helps them to work out who they are and what they want to do.

I did not go to Uni, but my two children did. Here's my take and why.

I think he should go.

I went straight from school into working for a Bank. I worked my way up to Management level. I took VR after working there many years, and when I started looking for comparable salary jobs, every single time, they wanted people with education to Degree level (and often the Degree could have been in anything). My experience at the Bank meant nothing without the Degree.

My two children both have Degrees. They both got a 2:2 The doors that have been opened to them, and the opportunities they have been afforded, have been amazing. They are both now in incredible jobs, which they would not be in, if they didn't have a Degree. They also made a lot of contacts at Uni.

Also, I think if you discourage him, and he feels held back later in life, he will always hold you accountable, and I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

I do hear you about the money side though! Not only will he incur debt, but you will need to fund him along the way. Uni accommodation is not cheap. My DDs shared flat at one time, was £800pm rent. That was a Unite 10 bed flat, and her portion alone was £800. I spent tens of thousands in support for the 4 and 5 years they were studying.

Well, there is value in the uni experience. I went to uni in Scotland and those were the best 4 years of my life. I picked a uni I liked the look and feel of, and a subject I enjoyed. I hadn't thought through the long term plan! In fact at the end of uni I still had no clue what I wanted to do!! But that's ok! I had a great time at uni and after uni I worked abroad for a bit trying to figure out what I could do with my degree and what I was really interested in. Fast forward 20 years, and I now have a job I enjoy, pays well, a family I love and a few more qualifications. Life tends to work out when you do what is right for you and not what you think others want you to do. Let him do what he wants.

As a university lecturer for a couple of decades now, I would strongly advise students in this position to take a year out, work for a bit, travel for a bit and go to university the following year once they've grown up. They'll get so much more out of the course that way. Students who go just because everyone else they know is doing it often have the hardest time as they are not motivated to work, fail courses, fail retakes and then have to leave or repeat years. And this is miserable.

He wants to go. Your comment about "very strange views" just seems to be referring to people who don't agree with you. Fwiw I went to Uni doing a random subject because i wanted to go. I would not take back my time and uni for anything. I have a good job not necessarily related to my field of study. I think it's very unfair of you to be dismissing him in the way you are.

I agree with this. I really cannot see the point in going to uni without a clear view of the end goal, in fact I strongly disagree with this.

There are lots of other ways to build a career, I am qualified in a professional career and did my professional exams whilst working, those who have a degree in the same subject still had to do professional exams and in fact struggled more than those who had studied whilst working. They definitely don't earn more or qualify quicker!

Personally I would prefer my DC to look at an apprenticeship or something they may have a slight interest in then once they decide on a career path then go to uni if required.

Regardless of his motivation I don’t understand your problem with him not having stem subjects. A degree in a language or an arts subject is perfectly valid and reasonable and is a pathway into all sorts of careers

I really don't understand how people think that you should go to uni for the experience of student life. No wonder degrees are actually not as well thought of than they used to be.

I do agree with this however surely you should do a degree with some thought that it is something you will want a career in and that the degree will help you get a job in that field. Obviously people may change their minds on job choices, that's understandable but to just pick any old degree to get a 3 year piss up is wrong IMO.

My ds hasn't gone to Uni straight away. He's doing a sort of apprenticeship in something he wants to build a career in though. I'd suggest a more productive year off than working in McDonald's with no goal in mind. I worked there as a student but it was to facilitate other things I wanted to do, not just an aimless year watching my friends progress whilst I stagnated. Does he want to travel? Does he have any ideas of work experience or apprenticeships? If not Uni may be the best option in that it will open his eyes to possibilities and give him life skills in a way that flipping burgers will not.

Sure it can be, many fields in the arts though for example are extremely competitive (and poorly paid but that's an aside)- to have a chance at securing the job you want you have to be doing additional work and experience alongside your degree; shadowing, volunteering, making up a portfolio etc. Similar-ish for humanities, unless you have a specific goal that requires that particular degree you'll be up against all sorts of other degrees for grad schemes or jobs that require any degree, not always easy.

Nought wrong with those paths at all, I'm a huge advocate for the arts and stuff like that but realistically if you don't know what to do and aren't making a converted effort to aim for a particular career then they don't afford as many opportunities generally as STEM subjects. If you study maths for example even if you have no clue what you want to do it'll open up all sorts of career paths, funded further study, grad schemes because there's a shortage.

It's a tricky one. I can see where you're coming from as it's a lot of expense just to go away and party for three years. Not doing a stem subject isn't an issue I don't think, there are plenty of jobs out there that aren't science based and I imagine a language degree would be pretty desirable.

However. Both my dc went to uni, and they learned much more than the contents of the course. How to deal with life as an adult, sort out housing, laundry, budget, cook, and just generally grow up and be independent.

Admittedly they did both have a good idea about what they wanted to do in life, and worked hard academically as well as enjoying the social side. I don't know how I'd have felt about it if they were just coasting along and not really interested, because it's cost us a lot of money to get them through uni.

Unless he wants to do a maths degree, what is risky about taking a year out?

Why should the OP fund her DS's party lifestyle?

University lecturers don't want uninterested and unmotivated students.

Has he considered a degree apprenticeship? There are some excellent ones out there.
Www. Getmyfirstjob.co.uk
www.talentview.org
both good places to start as well as gov. Uk and Google amazing apprenticeships

Hope this gives him some options

My Scottish is maybe shining through here - our tuition is free 🎉 and loans only need paying back at a low rate once you earn over £25k.

I did an apprenticeship on my gap year and have zero regrets- I got a qualification, plus the pay was low so I didn’t get used to the pay 😂

Difference is that most of them are doing at least one STEM subject! DS doing a degree in humanities or Spanish not so useful in this day and age.

What are you basing this (incorrect) opinion on?

If he doesn't know what he wants to do, university's the best place for him.

He can't compete with his peers for jobs, apprenticeships, training etc in the real world if what you say is correct and he's not motivated and doesn't know what he wants to do. Employers will see that.

He might get a job for a year and that might be good for him, but it's unlikely to be a job with strong prospects. Unless you think managing a KFC is a strong prospect. Without experience or direction he's going to fall into something he might not like and he'll rue it for a long time. I speak from personal experience.

I do agree with this however surely you should do a degree with some thought that it is something you will want a career in and that the degree will help you get a job in that field. Obviously people may change their minds on job choices, that's understandable but to just pick any old degree to get a 3 year piss up is wrong IMO.

It's really not unusual for an 18 year old to not have a clear career idea. Picking 'any old degree' is not necessarily a bad thing as around 80% of graduate jobs don't specify a degree subject - just a degree! Choosing something you are good at and enjoy is really sound advice. I would also advise these students to engage with the university careers service as soon as they arrive as they will support them in developing their career ideas.

Actually, geography - a humanities subject - has one of the best employment rates of any undergraduate degree.

https://www.ucas.com/explore/subjects/geography

I agree with this. I really cannot see the point in going to uni without a clear view of the end goal, in fact I strongly disagree with this.

I didn't know what I wanted to be when I started uni.

I knew by the end. And I'd also had four great years and some formative experiences that I'd have missed out on by staying in my small town. I now work in a job I couldn't have dreamed of achieving without a university degree.

Everyone's different.

I wasn't sure what I really wanted to do at uni, and I deferred for four years before I gave up on the idea of going. Hands down it was the best decision I ever made.

I didn't need that "university experience", I had loads of money in savings and has no debt until I got a mortgage.

Working at McDonald's is pretty good actually as you can easily move up the (fast food) chain to gain managerial experience, even as a young employee. He could transfer that experience to another role in his early twenties and beyond. If you have space to let him stay at home, he can save a decent wad of cash.

It should be noted that you can work in McDonalds while studying at university.

Uni isn't the same as it was 10,20 or 30 years ago, so a lot of the posters saying it was the best years of their life, etc., aren't comparing like for like.

Covid and the internet has completely changed Uni life. It can now be a pretty miserable place unless you're 100% focussed on your chosen subject or are in to the heavy partying social side of things.

My son went in 2020 and really suffered with covid as literally nothing was done face to face for the entire 20/21 academic year, the teaching/lecturing staff weren't even on campus and the departmental blocks were closed throughout. Even the library, sports centre, etc were closed for most of the year, as were the non-food shops such as the book shop, post office, etc.

He's now in year 3 and coming to the end, but he's still basically a hermit because he didn't meet or gel with other students in that first year. Even this last term, two of his modules were still 100% online and the lecturers weren't even in the country, let alone on campus, so no face to face at all, except for the odd tutorial session run by phd students! Even where lecturers are on campus, they'll often randomly cancel face to face lectures & seminars and do them online instead. This is his last week of term so last week of "formal" tuition etc (it's all revision after Easter), and he's only been on campus for a couple of hours one day this week - everything else was online. It's the "covid" effect that so much has gone online and the Uni don't seem to regard face to face as important anymore.

Add to that clubs and societies didn't run in 20/21, and many havn't restarted as there were no 20/21 intake students to take them over in 21/22 or 22/23. The societies my son was interested in are still shown on the Uni marketing website, but in reality, no longer exist!

Students are suffering MH issues at Uni in ever greater numbers, and numbers of students giving up are also at record highs. It's not the same experience that today's parents enjoyed 20/30 years ago! Maybe that's part of why today's students are struggling - they've been led to believe the "best years of my life" which they may have been for today's parents, and are so disappointed with the reality of today's student life as it's not what they've been led to believe.

If he's only year 12 he's got time to think about all this. Is his school good? Because Ds1's (started Uni this year) and Ds2 (choosing GCSE options) their care is superb. They spend hours and hours and hours of tutor time, assembly time, talking to all the kids about what they want. How are they going to achieve this, what route they're going to take, interview techniques, CV advice, do you wanna go to uni, do you wanna take a course, choose the right GCSEs that you can choose the right A-levels, so that you can go to do the job that you wanna do. or whatever it is that is you want. Go to college for being an electrician or brick layer or whatever. and the pastoral care and their guidance generally, the care of the Oxbridge students, is 2nd to none, and I have been extremely impressed with the schools care and careers advice generally. and sitting down the children and giving them appointments to talk about what they want if they're unsure.

Does your school do similar?

I'm sorry that your DS has had a rubbish time @Kazzyhoward. I do really feel for the kids who started uni in 2020. FWIW my daughter is in her second year at the moment, doing a non-STEM subject, with no idea what she wants to do afterwards. But she is having the time of her life - broadening her horizons; making a wide range of friends; discovering what she loves (both academically and hobby-related); growing up in a supportive setting; maturing and taking responsibility for her own life, housing and budgeting etc. etc. I wouldn't change it for the world.