To think DS would be better off getting a job rather than going to uni

[Goinganon321]

My son wants to go to uni but has no idea what to study. 75% of his cohort (non-selective state school) usually apply and go and he says it’s the norm.

He is taking English, Spanish and Sociology for A level (so no STEM) and will probably be predicted BBB. He does the bare minimum for his A-levels (no super-curricular stuff at all) so I question why he wants to go to uni.

AIBU to say he should take a year out, work and think about it? He says I am because working shifts in Maccy D’s for a year won’t change a thing and most of his friends don’t have a clue what they want to do for a career so are just choosing a degree related to their ‘best subject’ at A-level. Difference is that most of them are doing at least one STEM subject! DS doing a degree in humanities or Spanish not so useful in this day and age.

On the other hand, having him resentfully living here and working shifts for a year while all his (equally undecided) friends are at uni isn’t exactly an attractive prospect either…. Help!

Seeing this from a different angle - when I was in education it was just expected that I would do A’s then go to uni. I really struggled after uni because for the first time the next step wasn’t mapped out for me.

Could it be that your son is worried about stepping off the ‘given’ path? Would it help to reassure him and support him through this?

I also don’t think a humanities degree is useless - it will depend a lot on where he studies. A degree from a good uni is worth it regardless of subject (with the exception of fluff degrees like media studies). Modern foreign languages will never be pointless.

Is there a middle path? He applies for uni this year and sees how he gets on with a spot at a good uni. If that doesn’t work out, he could take a year out, do an extra part time A-level and work / travel.

A degree is still important to job prospects in many (most?) careers not necessarily for the content, but for the way it reaches you to learn and shows commitment to education.

That said, I wish I’d take a year out to grow up a bit before studying. I did really well but I think I was too immature to fully engage with the opportunities offered by university.

Let him make his own decisions about his life. If he wants to go, then please let him.

I'm 51 and still have great resentment that my DM wouldn't allow me to go to uni and I had a clear career path in mind that I was desperate to follow.

Gas engineers and electricians need to be intelligent as their exams (which they need to work unsupervised) aren't easy. Same with aspects of other trades. It's not all about hard graft anymore unless you're say a bricklayer or roofer or scaffolder. More and more electricians are setting up very complex computer controlled "smart" homes or heating systems, complex alarm systems, solar panel systems, etc. Likewise plumbers who need the GasSafe qualification to work with gas who are more likely these days to be setting up complicated heat source air pump systems or whole house heat retention systems. We've moved a long way from plumbers who just "bend pipes" or electricians just replacing a socket.

The educated/able tradespeople are taking the best, highest paid, complicated work. That leaves behind a kind of void or chasm which the unqualified "chancer" type of grunt worker comes in, and they're the ones who give the industry a bad name. That happens because too few "decent" people in terms of education, ability, etc., go into the trades. Small firms don't take on apprentices anymore because they don't get decent applicants - they generally get the bottom of the barrel ones who can't even be bothered to turn up on time, simply because kids who have decent qualifications go to Uni instead, often for no particular reason, they just drift into it, because they're not encouraged to go into the trades. Small firms would be more inclined to offer apprentice jobs if the applicants were of a better standard. The few decent kids with decent qualifications get sucked into the big firms, many of whom have entry qualification criteria of good GCSE and sometimes, good A Levels!

Other, once "manual" work has gone the same way. Train and tube drivers can earn over £50k because it's not just pressing a button - it's operating a computer that controls a very complex system.

We really do, as society, need to realise that manual work is just as important, often better paid, more valuable to society, than someone going to Uni and getting a 2:2 humanities degree, for no real reason other than it's the "done thing", and then whinge when they end up in a call centre or supermarket on minimum wage!

The difference is you had a "clear path in mind". The OP's son doesn't and is just going to Uni for the fun of it.

She isn't stopping him from going to university. She is suggesting that he takes time to think through properly what he wants to do. She will be expected to top up his maintenance loan, and if all he going to do is the minimum amount of work so that he can party hard I can understand her reservations.

Do you actually know how the current system of maintenance loans work BTW?

And if her son has interest these trades? What then?

Why don't you value non STEM subjects? Why do you think a degree in Spanish, Sociology, English would be useless? What job do you do, OP?

Many (many) jobs now require a degree, any degree. Even if they are not directly related.

Many (many) students work part time alongside a full-time degree. Of course they can't usually earn enough to support themselves on this and still need loan/parental support.

It's not the only route, a year out, a trade, an apprenticeship are all great options. But all you can do is present options to him. If he is set on going away for the university experience, I don't think you should stand in his way or be negative about his study subject choices. Does he have a good careers service at school/college?

Yes definitely give him the option of taking a year out.

I’ll be encouraging my DD to do the same.

You do not appreciate uni at such a young age, especially when you have been in education your entire life.
Taking a year out just gives you that break and you appreciate uni so much more.

I went as a mature student and although I missed out on the partying side, I absolutely loved it because I was studying something that I loved and it was a choice, instead of doing it because I think I should.

There is no point doing a degree just for the sake of it when it is £9k a year debt.

He can take a year out and work until he decides what he wants to do.

He needs to get a full time job though.
He could even look for live in jobs or jobs abroad just for the experience.

There are also many apprenticeship degrees or trainee programmes that may be more suitable for him if he decides uni isn’t his thing.

If he's determined to go to uni for the student life etc I don't think there's much you can do. I think what you're advising is a good idea but we all know what young adults are like, they need to figure these things out for themselves.

The one thing I'd be worrying about is him failing, particularly seeing that he's so disengaged from learning and applying himself. And of course that he's no idea what he wants to do.

He's a classic candidate for a degree in a business subject some kind. I'd recommend supply chain management or hr, they both lead to lots of job opportunities

Also if he wants to go to uni then let him, even if it’s a degree he’s picked out of a hat.

He needs to be responsible for his own choices and often our mistakes are what makes us more successful in the long run.

Moving away from home for the student experience imo is the best part of uni. Teaches them some independence, they get to make ailly mistakes without their parents watching anf create their own lives.

As an ex University admissions officer who has met hundreds of young students and sifted through too many applications to remember there is nothing wrong with delaying applying for University and working. They mature and learn other life lessons.

My DS worked loading and unloading freight for 2 years. He gave us rent, which we didn’t need at all but he learned about money and saved up 8k. He met people from all walks of life and ages. He is now doing a degree apprenticeship fully paid with no student debt with a guaranteed job that is exactly what he wants to do.

I think a bit of manual grafting is good for the soul, DH worked in a lab and also a factory for a year before he went off to Cambridge and I worked doing various jobs such as chambermaid and shop work for a few years before I decided to go to University.

I would imagine many people on here were applying for graduate schemes when the percentage of graduates was much lower. Graduate numbers have doubled since 1992, the amount of graduate schemes places has not doubled.

To actually get a place on a graduate scheme now with a general degree is much harder now than when many of the parents on this website did due to numbers. My friend was head administrator of the research dept of the RG University we both worked in, she had no degree. Towards the end of her career she joked how she couldn’t even employ the lowest grade secretary unless they had a degree and that she would have had no chance.

We both took early retirement as have many of our friends in HE, mainly becuse the entire situation overall was just miserable.

As a headline, all those graduates, experiences, widening participation and opportunities sound great but it really isn’t for many graduates.

I agree

Dd chose not to go to uni while the vast majority of her friends did this September.

She seems to have the best of all worlds at the moment . Lives at home in the week , earning and studying for her accountant qualifications. Come Friday night she packs up her car and heads off to a different uni to visit one of her mates for the weekend .

Does all the clubbing and hanging out that she could want and then comes home Sunday night to a clean, quiet house for the working week .

No worries about debt and she's got more fun money that any of her student mates

If he wants to go to uni then why would you stop him?

No one on here can predict the future. Yes, he might end up with a mediocre degree and it not benefit him at all. I know someone with a history degree who works at M&S on the tills - was it worth it; some might say not. Or it might be the pathway to an interesting and lucrative career? We don't know as yet and your DS is still young.

I think going to uni particularly if you move away from home is so much more than study. It teaches you independence and opens your eyes to the world out there. If he studies Spanish, he will be expected to spend at least some time in Spain or South America I would imagine?

Yes he can get a local job instead. He might do well and they might promote him. But you'll never know if he would've done better if he'd got a degree.

@Goinganon321 What about something like International Business with Spanish?

E.g. https://www.ntu.ac.uk/course/nottingham-business-school/ug/ba-hons-international-business-with-spanish

Lots of unis do it, business is a good transferrable skill, would be pretty fluent in spanish, which is an impressive skill.

I agree with you that the cost/value relationship of studying has completely changed. You don’t get a job just for speaking another language (I speak five so I do know), you need other skills too.
Gap year to find a direction sounds useful if things don’t change and visiting friends at uni at the weekend can be very enlightening.
I would also consider doing the whole degree in a Spanish-speaking country. The costs will likely be lower and the benefit of the experience higher.
If he really loves languages he could consider ab initio Arabic and/or Chinese and consider a UN career.

I wouldn't be impressed with part funding my dc to piss about at uni for 3 years because of the party and experience. If there is a career path they are looking at then fine, but otherwise its a waste of time and money. A gap year is a good idea, he could look at doing some internships, short college courses etc and work out what he really wants to do.

A Spanish degree isn’t so useful nowadays? There are more than 400 million native Spanish speakers and it’s an official language in many international organizations. Language degrees give you the chance to study another language from scratch alongside, study culture, history and politics, business and education and live abroad.

I did a Spanish degree and then became an English teacher, lived in many different countries and then could have taken my pick of many roles in education, international business or gone on to further study in international law or something else. I still do some translation and interpreting on the side for extra money. For that comment alone about it not being very useful, you come across as extremely ignorant. Maybe broaden your horizons slightly?

Sounds great!

But she'll suddenly hit a ceiling in her org years down the line when someone of equal intelligence but with a degree will get promoted above her due to being "more qualified"

Sad but true

My son who did A levels in Maths, ICT and Psychology decided not to go to Uni. All his friends went. He had higher grades than most his friends. He said he did not want to spend 3 more years studying. He now works in a warehouse picking car parts. He gets bored out his skull. He is on a little over minimum wage. His friends all went and did ICT degrees and now all eating between £55-67k in West Midlands. My son now finally wishes he went to uni. I have told he we would support him if he wanted to go now but he is adamant he missed his chance.

Gap year sounds perfect for him.
I was at uni in the 80s and the culture has changed so much since I was there.
Very low contact hours.
It all feels like a bit of a scam to me.

One of my DC graduated from a nursing degree last year and shared a house with 11 other students (not nurses) who sat around smoking dope every single day. They had no motivation to do anything and they would still be in their pyjamas when DC got home at 9pm after working a 12hour shift.
Drugs are absolutely rife and as someone who has no particular passion for a subject, I'd be worried your DS would get sucked into that lifestyle.
University is a huge expense, not just for him but for you as you will be supporting him. It's not something to drift into. I sometimes think its an opportunity that is wasted on 18year olds.

We have another DC (21) that has just completed a tech degree apprenticeship (turned down a place at Durham to do this). They have now got a first class degree, industry experience, £22K in their savings account, no debt and about to start a job on almost £45k. At the time people said they were mad not to go to uni.

Have a look at degree apprenticeships and see if they float his boat. If he doesn't like it he can always leave and go to uni, its harder to do it the other way round.

MFL language graduates are in decline. We need more!

My nephew is doing Spanish at Oxbridge. The real pain is arranging the placement abroad. After Brexit, it’s become a lot harder for students to sort this out.

I have two STEM uni kids and one humanities child. The humanities one has much fewer contact hours. But they are studying interesting subjects and really getting a broad view of the world, and have so much to talk about, related to the course.

I wouldn’t dismiss non-STEM subjects. They very much have their place in the world.