To want DS to go to the best university?

[Oilrigger]

DS now has five offers from universities: three Russell Group, one a well-regarded uni but not RG and one a newer university (former poly years ago) offering him BBC (he is predicted AAB). The courses are pretty similar at all five unis (can't go into more detail because he would be furious if he found out I was posting on MN!).

He is adamant that he wants to go to the former poly because he likes it the most. He also reasons that he will have a more enjoyable and less pressurised time there and that he is more likely to get a good class of degree (2.1 or 1st) from the ex-poly - rather than a 2.2 from a Russell Group uni that he just scrapes into. So he is going to firm the ex-poly (he won't have/need an insurance as it is his lowest offer).

AIBU to want him to firm one of the more prestigious Russell Group unis and insure the former poly? DH says I am as it is DS' decision and he's the one who will be going to uni.

I believe he did drop out. It was very sad to read of his struggles.

It's not unreasonable to think it or even to offer your point of view. At the end of the day though it's his choice so just don't cross a line from advice to pressure.

No. Lots of RG universities attract funding enough to have these facilities. Non-RGs don't consistently attract those funding levels.

My point is that non-RGs still 'sell' students the idea that they're being trained in the area. But they're not being trained to the level that employers in the field will consider them for decent roles. Because the universities don't have the equipment or infrastructure to do so. The students are being sold a pup.

As PPs have said its field-dependent.

My own personal feelings are when you’re 18, you are an adult and responsible for your own decisions. Of course you can throw your opinion in about his choice but it’s his life and he sounds like he has made up his mind. Be happy for him.

In my experience once you get past the first few years of experience in a job no one cares where you went to uni or if you even did. It very annoying for me because I have a masters from a fairly good uni! I base this on working in HR / recruitment in Banking and Finance and also the public sector for the last 15 years.

He's going to uni, not you.

People are questioning me saying recruitment agencies don’t always have access to where a degree came from. I don’t have personal experience but there is lots of talk on blind recruiting on the
’what I wish I knew about university ‘ Facebook page . People commenting on there saying they recruit without knowing in big companies .

He sounds very mature, How happy he will be and how pressured he will feel cannot be underestimated. Uni students have staggering amounts of mental health issues these days.

Novalia - Of course my kids know that their friend/housemate, girlfriend has less teaching time and fewer exams - the person tells them. You dont have to study at a place to be aware of this. My husband didnt need to work at my company to know my work hours.....

Ah this is tough. I remember back to my final year at college when my parents were talking to me about unis and all I cared about was the night life in the town and where my boyfriend was going.
Fortunately he chose a RG uni so I went there, by pure chance. I had no concept of prestigious uni's VS non prestigious whereas now I'd feel differently. I feel for you OP.

This new trend of placing “happiness” over e rushing is interesting and by “happiness” I see it as just taking the easy way out and using the guide of happiness and mental health to justify it.

Teminds me if a conversation with my nephew who didn’t want to go to university as he didn’t think he would be happy yet he had no other plan of what to do. Claimed money isn’t I present and he is happy to live in a shared room for the rest of his life etc. and yet he also wants the latest phones, cars; travel etc.

Many of these decisions are being made naively and based on short term thinking and taking the easy way out. Na t if our kids now lack drive and ambition but quickly justify it with mental health and search for happiness.

Not to mention the fact that AAB is only one grade different in each subject than BBC so there is not necessarily a huge difference between performance. An AAB student might only have gained a few more marks than a BBC student if they were just either side of the grade boundaries in each subject. A bit of an off day or a spot of luck with a question could easily make that difference. We're hardly talking the difference between Einstein and Joe Public.
Back in the dark ages when I went to University the standard offer for my course was BBB. I got AAAA and also passed 2 special papers. Was there any discernible difference between me and others like me and those who "only" had Bs by the time we graduated? No. And nobody cared about A levels - I don't think I ever knew what results most of my friends had. It certainly did me no harm to have to spend three years with them!

I have experience of being summarily rejected from a course ( at the point of enquiry, not interview) because I had a 2.2. The fact that it was from a RG uni 20+ years previously ( before grade inflation) cut no ice. Maybe OP's son has a point. I did do the course elsewhere in the end.

I get where you’re coming from however as someone who went to a top university I’d say it’s overrated. Lots of grad opportunities just want to know what classification you got. The civil service even require you not to list the university. I guess you can’t share what he wants to be as that’d hint at the course. Ultimately he gets to decide.

YABU. He’s going to spend multiple years at uni, wouldn't you rather he go to one he thinks he'll enjoy?

Interesting! I didn't realise about blind applications and that many prospective employers don't ask what uni you went to any more.

Predicted AAA and he "just scrapes" into a RG uni?

That is the opposite of niche. Any molecular/cell biology/genetics degree would have facilities for this.

Do you have an example of a Uni offering it without the required labs?

Well said Morningmoaner.👏👏
Fancy dc having to spend time with people who got lower grades than them.🤪

What's the course? I went to an ex poly and graduated qualified to take up a registered role. The students who did the same course at the Russel group down the road not only had to do registration qualification but also in some cases top up modules. What does he want to do after uni? A lot of ex polys do sandwich degrees with a year in industry that often leads to a job on graduation

@KStockHERO

One of my DC’s went to the top Uni in the UK and the other an ex-poly.

both got 1sts

Other than "the vibe", what makes that (Poly) University stand out in DS's mind:
Syllabus (and ease of doing modules in other subjects if unsure)?
Academic reputation (some courses are very niche - and particular Unis can have a great reputation for a handful of these courses)?
Great sports/drama facilities?
Collegiate (not saying that this is a good or bad thing)?
Student halls versus flats?
Sandwich year?
Employability?
Great nightlife?
Cheap rent?
Ease of finding accommodation?
Easy to get to/from home?

DD is year 11 and looking at "work experience/insight programmes" this Summer. It strikes me that the big professional/finance firms are bending over backwards to move away from simply recruiting from their tried and tested Unis, so approach this with a level head.

It wouldn’t be particularly outing to say what he wants to choose as his first choice and a couple of the other options.

Be conscious that graduate recruiters spend more time at the top universities. I remember having loads of application hint sessions from the likes of the big 4 as well as lots of cheese and wine sessions from more niche employers. You just don’t get the same attention at the lower ranking universities (but that said some have excellent industry links so that is course dependent).

When I did graduate recruitment I did look at university and the extras that person did. Does he know what job he wants to do? Eg if he wants to do city finance he’d be mad to turn down LSE economics in favour of Plymouth.

I also think the stats from civil service fast stream recruitment are fascinating. The applications are university blind but there are stats for entry by oxbridge, Russell group and other universities. Oxbridge make up 11% of successful candidates despite only representing about 4.35% of applicants, Russell group 65% of the successful candidates compared to 43% of applicants and other universities made up 24% of the successful candidates despite accounting for around 53% of applicants. So even for a university blind application process you’ve got a greater chance of success if you’ve come from oxbridge or a Russell group. But clearly people are successful from a range of institutions - it is just probably harder.

To some extent it depends a lot on the course - ex-poly universities sometimes have some really innovative and valuable courses which are a lot more effective preparation for specific careers than the "purer" courses offered by older universities.

But YABU generally because the most important factor is the student's own willingness and motivation, and that will be massively lower if he feels railroaded into a course that wasn't his choice.

He should be aware though that employers will generally count a 2:1 from an ex-poly as equivalent to a 2:2 from a top uni, so he doesn't actually benefit from the "easier" aspect - if he wants to do well in the long term he will need to aim for a 1st class degree from the ex-poly, which will be treated as equivalent to a 2:1 from a top uni.