To want DS to go to the best university?

[Oilrigger]

DS now has five offers from universities: three Russell Group, one a well-regarded uni but not RG and one a newer university (former poly years ago) offering him BBC (he is predicted AAB). The courses are pretty similar at all five unis (can't go into more detail because he would be furious if he found out I was posting on MN!).

He is adamant that he wants to go to the former poly because he likes it the most. He also reasons that he will have a more enjoyable and less pressurised time there and that he is more likely to get a good class of degree (2.1 or 1st) from the ex-poly - rather than a 2.2 from a Russell Group uni that he just scrapes into. So he is going to firm the ex-poly (he won't have/need an insurance as it is his lowest offer).

AIBU to want him to firm one of the more prestigious Russell Group unis and insure the former poly? DH says I am as it is DS' decision and he's the one who will be going to uni.

My DN has also had 5 offers, including one from Cambridge, but she is going to York. The most prestigious Uni isn't always the right choice.

YABU. His decision. Having a degree has added next to no difference in my career, it’s all about experience and skills. I’m glad I at least had fun whilst I was at uni!

YABU to pressure him into your choice of uni. I have 2 DCs at uni and I firmly believe it has to be their choice. Yiu can give your thoughts - once - then he decides.

There’s plenty of time before he has to make the final choice.
But
The point is HE makes the choice.
Why are you pushing for RG when the courses are similar.
He has to work and live there, not you.

We ve been through this with 3 DSs, they chose all their five choices, I only recommended one to one DS as it was a great course and he hadn’t looked at Wales unis. Actually I did recommend Queens to another DS who’d avoided it because we re Catholic ( I think he’d got carried away with old news articles )
They put them down on their 5 choices but ultimately went for what they wanted.

Youre a bit obsessed with ‘old polys’. Todays employers really don’t think about ‘old polys’. That’s a generational thing. Plus a lot of ‘old polys’ as they were regarded in my day in the 80s are now excellent highly regarded research centred universities.

My 3 made their own choices and never looked back. The RGs that 2 of them chose don't seem to have made a blind bit of difference.

I shouldn’t but I will say a friend of my eldest went to a toptop uni because of parental pressure. Within 4 weeks he had hung himself. So I would never condone forcing anyone to fulfill my desires against theirs.

You said “sure” and then didn’t answer. What is the “specific field”?

Your DS is going to be an adult, it's his choice advise , offer support but don't try to push him into what you think is best it will backfire. You don't want to be posting on MN in 10 years wondering why he doesn't get in contact much and spends all his time with partner and her family. You risk pushing him away he has to be free to make mistakes it's all a part of learning to adult.

lots of employers now haven’t got access to where you did your degree only what you did and what grade.

What about CVs??

I don't believe this. An employer will want to know where someone has gone to Uni!

It's cell engineering which needs cell culture labs plus aseptic units.

I've completed two undergraduate degrees one at a prestigious RG , one more career focussed at an ex poly. The teaching at the former was so much better, the expectations much higher, access to seminars, the challenge from other students etc. However as a recruiter civil service/MOJ we don't see the university anyway so it's irrelevant in that sense.

I assume you're a synthetic biologist @Ishefuckingkiddingme given you're intent on knowing the exact field. And will therefore know the costs involved.

Oh that's good to know @Ishefuckingkiddingme. On that (very long) thread, the only people from professional services firms who said it mattered were from magic circle firms.

Lots of organisations will do blind recruitment.
They won't ask for a CV, they'll ask people to complete an application form.

@piedbeauty CVs aren't used in a lot of fields now.

Most top tier employers don’t accept CVs anymore

No of course not - what a question! We will pay accommodation wherever he goes and he will live off student loan

🤣🤣🤣🤣
reminds me of an interview exam I had to sit.
Listening to the Cambridge graduate trying to convince the examiners you could use a design and build contract on a listed building🤣🤣🤣🤣
He failed,, obviously
Now I’m an employer i am always reminded there are idiots in all walks of life and employers should read past the grades and education.

I'm getting a sense of snobbery. Though I attend a RG University as a mature student and half the students tend to be getting low grades and can't string a sentence, so I think the idea of superiority in RG universities is far overrated. I only live near one uni that I could apply to as a lone parent that would work with childcare arrangements or I'd have gone elsewhere.

That’s crazy, many non RG universities are as good if not better than RG. I went to a really excellent University in the UK, it’s just not in the Russell Group, but was one of the best in my subject and it was quite hard to get in. Not every University even wants to be in the Russell Group - it’s not an independent verified ranking of Universities - its’ a group of Universities who set up the group themselves!

Is that so niche that in fact very few universities of any type will have the appropriate facilities?

Are you finding his studies? This does affect the dynamic for sure. But there was a thread on here a couple of months ago really regretting pushing her son into Oxford where he was really miserable when he wanted to go to York, and he was going to drop out and their relationship was really strained.

I am a former Russell Group admissions tutor. I think your DS must make his own decision.

Light touch discussion is fine. Here are some things you and he may not have thought of.

Given that the course at the post 1992 uni ranks highly for both student satisfaction and employability, what components are pulling the ranking down to the bottom half? Is research the main one? Unless your DS is doing a traditional academic subject and a PhD is a possibility, a low research ranking should not affect his student experience. As PPs have implied, this may leave the staff more time to focus on teaching and they may be more interested in doing so.

Of interest to you both, even though employers are moving towards blind applications, evidence is emerging that a good education pays off. Specifically, in some branches of the Civil Service that have been doing blind applications for a little while, the percentage of Oxbridge entrants has risen. It is thought that this is because their training prepares them so well for the testing and interviews. (After reading about this on MN I verified it in the respectable press, but I don’t have time to chase down a reference now). How far this extends to other unis I don’t know.

Post 1992 unis broadly speaking offer more academic support to students than the RG, but this may have unintended consequences for your DS. How will he be assessed? In a number of degree programmes I know of assessments are more frequent than in the RG (again, broadly speaking).

Research on teaching and learning supports this. The best and brightest at Oxbridge essentially get it, in the form of very frequent feedback on informal assignments that are all but mandatory. Many, many RG students get away with learning less than they might because without any external need to keep up with their work, they don’t.

’Recommended reading’ in the RG may well become the subject of an assignment in a post 1992 uni. This becomes a theme.

If your DS is under the impression that he will be working less at the post 1992 uni, he needs to investigate the teaching, learning and assessment methods for his degree programme. It may not follow the dichotomy I have suggested. But many degree programmes do. The good news is that if he chooses the post 1992 and does the required work, he is likely to be very successful.

He sounds very bright, so I'd have faith in letting him make his own informed choices. If he's considered all the options carefully and has made his choice accordingly, then that's his decision.

I was made to take the naice educational option as my parents felt it had more kudos. I wasn't very happy, struggled a bit and ended up doing not as well as I know I could have done at the less prestigious, but more supportive and forward-thinking place.

To be honest if he wants to go to university and run up thousands in debt then he might as well enjoy it.

No point you choosing for him because anything that goes wrong or doesn’t work out it will be your fault.

Has he been to the opendays?
A lot has changed at universities in the last decade. Its your son's choice at the end of the day.

The UCAS hub helps compare various courses. Things you could look at is how many teaching hours are allocated to the course. How do they assess his work (proportion coursework v exams)
YOu can also ring admission tutors and find out how many students do a course and what proportion get firsts and 2.1s. they often don't put this in the brochure but will tell you and they don't mind speaking to your personally. They don't take names either so it won't affect his application.
Which uni has the biggest department for the subject?
eg engineering. Some unis specialise in it, which means he would have the choice of lots of different modules and tutors and aligned subjects - that is what I would base it on.
If he's doing film studies for e.g.. is the uni more practical with a lot of studio facilities or is it more of an essay writing course, looking at the history of film. Some former polys specialise in particular subjects... If his course is at a place that specialises in his subject - it might be better for him than a more established uni that tries to cover a wider range of subjects.
What does he want to do afterwards? Would he benefit from an MA - he could go to another university to do that.
Another consideration is how much extra curricular there is - if he likes skiing, does it have an active snow club that arranges trips. Is it near a lively town with lots going on.
If he has really looked into this and is not just being influenced by friends, then maybe you should embrace his choice and not make him feel like he picked a second best course when its what he wants to do.

Not in my experience of MC firms. It tends to be a perception people have from the outside (which MC firms are spending a fortune trying to counter). I went to a non-RG university and I got training contract offers from both Allen & Overy and Freshfields. And, after qualification, where you went to university matters even less. The numbers of non-RG trainees at MC firms is low but, truthfully, that’s because non-RG candidates choose not to apply or choose to go to other firms because of the reputation that they’re not non-RG friendly firms…the loss of talent from that is why there’s such a push to change that perception.