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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Daughter accused of instigating a serious incident. Is she really wrong?

738 replies

wasshereallywrong · 22/03/2023 20:37

I have name changed for this to not link to previous threads as this is outing and I have told people in real life.

I am going to preface this be saying my DD 13 is a gobby little sod so I know she can be annoying and hasn't got the best school record but she has no time for injustice which has led to conflict for her in the past but to todays incident...

My DD has several black friends (we come from a very white area). She was told today that one lad was going around using the N word. This isn't the first time and so she took it upon herself to confront him and tell him it isn't right and it is racist. Like I say she is gobby so I imagine she was heated when she said it. He pushed her away and told her to leave him alone, everyone gathered around and she said she wasn't going to fight and went to move away, he pushed her again and ran off. Two of her friends then caught up with the lad and several punches were thrown. I am not saying the fight was acceptable. It was 2 on 1 and he was hurt and fighting is never ok.

My DD has now been given a day of internal exclusion because she initiated a serious incident. Did she though or did she call out unacceptable racism? Was it not the lad who was using the n word the person who instigated it? I have said that she has to accept that she was wrong to get involved in something that wasn't to do with her but was she wrong? If people don't call out racist behaviour how is it stopped? I am going to be speaking to the head teacher tomorrow as I missed his call today but AIBU to be proud of her for taking a stand against racist behaviour and to be arguing with the punishment for starting this when if he hadn't made the comments it wouldn't have been necessary to 'talk' to him about it. And is the school wrong for punishing someone for calling out this behaviour?

OP posts:
Iam4eels · 22/03/2023 22:02

She called him on his racism.

She sought out another pupil and publicly confronted him based on gossip. She had no proof he had actually said this word, she didn't witness it herself, she was acting on information carried to her secondhand by other pupils.

Calling him out publicly in front of a group of other pupils then spread that gossip to everyone watching. As a result of her calling him out two other pupils took it upon themselves to dish out some punches, an action they might not have taken had she not gathered a crowd and let everyone know what this boy had said.

Except she had zero proof that he said it.

She triggered of an incident by reacting to gossip.

Eyerollcentral · 22/03/2023 22:02

TiredandHungry19 · 22/03/2023 21:56

Irrelevant to whether or not a girl very clearly refusing to fight - even when she’s being assaulted - is responsible for male violence. It’s victim blaming.

Show quote history

It’s not victim blaming. She started the row. She had a means through the school or dealing with her concerns. She decided to start a row. She had only heard someone else say that this other child had used that word. Were you never at school? How many rumours did you hear every day at 13? How many fights did you see start over them? I couldn’t even tell you how many I saw, and that was at an all girl’s convent school. The OP’s daughter needs to learn to stop getting in people’s faces, not least of all because of she continues one day she will accuse the wrong person and will have to deal with the consequences. I don’t even think it’s so much the girl refused to fight, she was happy to have a verbal row, she just didn’t like it when she realised oh actually I could get my face punched in here. She didn’t even leave the first time she was pushed. Have you never seen a physical fight?

Quveas · 22/03/2023 22:04

Soapboxqueen · 22/03/2023 20:50

Your dd challenging someone using the N word in front of her would be one thing but this was at the very least second hand knowledge. She didn't know at that point how true it was or if someone else was just stirring.

She then decided to confront this person in a less than calm and controlled manner.

She should have raised this with a member of staff.

She did start that altercation.

I agree. If someone says something racist in front of you then there are CALM ways of dealing with it. She heard some gossip, and true or not she decided to start a conflict. She was wrong and the subsequent incident was caused by her.

AliceOlive · 22/03/2023 22:04

YouTarzan · 22/03/2023 21:41

This thread has it all!

How could we expect children to have perfect judgement when adults go nuts just reading about a situation?!

JustAnotherManicNameChange · 22/03/2023 22:05

OP needs to go into the school or actually talk to the head and get all the facts about what actually happened and her daughter's actions.

We can all froth all we want for the next 20 pages, based on third hand half info, but then we're just like the kids in the playground really.

DrMeredithGrey2023 · 22/03/2023 22:06

@Elvis1956 I would imagine she mentioned not wanting to fight because he was physically aggressive towards her when he pushed her the first time.
How I would react in any situation is not going to be the same way that a 13 year old child would react, so what I would do is irrelevant.
She isn't in control of her friends actions.

Ireallycantthinkofagoodone · 22/03/2023 22:06

Scienceadvisory · 22/03/2023 20:42

Except she doesn't even know for sure this boy said anything racist. She just heard it from someone else and then went running round causing trouble. If she actually cared she would have reported to a teacher. But she just sounds like a hot-head who enjoys drama. I wonder if the person who told her about the alleged comments did so because they know its easy to wind your daughter up.

This ⬆️

Veryverycalmnow · 22/03/2023 22:07

cantstopthefeeling · 22/03/2023 20:54

Seriously, she called out racist language and said it wasn't right. He pushed her, she went to go away and he pushed her again. If what the OP says is right she didn't charge in with violence. His behaviour, a boy being told by a girl that what he said wasn't right, started a violent response, towards a girl. I'm sorry but she has done the right thing. Yes she can speak to teachers and she should do that as well but if we want to change how language is used whether it is racist, homophobic or misogynistic then kids calling it out and showing up poor behaviour is how we do it. He had the opportunity to say he didn't say it or walk away, he didn't...he pushed a girl TWICE, once after she walked away saying she wasn't going to fight. He upped the violence not her. Calling out bad language is not violent, it's the only way to stop it being accepted.

^I agree. It's not always best to tell a teacher. Sometimes young people respect their peers opinions more than a teacher talking to them. Maybe the fact it's not the first time he's said things like this suggests he thinks he can get away with it.
OP's DD backed away, after calling this kid out on their racism. I think she did the right thing, but it then led to other people making bad choices.
She said she wouldn't fight. She didn't actually do wrong! Racists need to be told it's not ok.

FrippEnos · 22/03/2023 22:08

Elvis1956 · 22/03/2023 22:01

We are reading the ops drop feed. Firstly, why did the dd need to mention afight. I've never come across a right minded female who's mentioned, even suggested fighting a male. I bet everyone at school knows she boxes...I find it strange that the op mentioned her boxing ...in an earlier post I surmised that it makes her feel invincible.
Secondly, she heard from a third party that he had been racist. Would you accuse me of being racist if someone told you I was? I expect you would ask me calmly if I was.
Third, even the op admits that her dd is gobby, has her own track record in school.
Finally, we have the fact that 2 boys are also in trouble as a result of her actions. The o p hasn't mentioned how badly the boy who was hit was injured. The 2 boys could have been in a lot of trouble because the DD acted as she did....she instigated everything

Show quote history

The only bit that @Elvis1956 has missed is that it was the two boys that hit the other boy that told her that he had said the n word.

DrMeredithGrey2023 · 22/03/2023 22:09

She didn’t even leave the first time she was pushed.

op says she went to move away after he pushed her the first time

Hankunamatata · 22/03/2023 22:10

I'm guessing she got right in the boys face if he asked her to leave him alone and close enough to be pushed. She inflamed situation then riled her male friends enough to assault this boy - where police could be involved especially two boys hitting one.

Yet you think she hasn't done anything wrong.

DiddyHeck · 22/03/2023 22:13

I am going to be speaking to the head teacher tomorrow as I missed his call today

Then you've started this thread 24 hours too early.

Why have you chosen to do that?

Pointless.

dawngreen · 22/03/2023 22:14

She needs to learn to go through the proper channels about these things. Not to wade into the middle of trouble because some one said he did. What if he had a knife, and used it?? Even boxers meet their match some day. She needs to pick the right hill to fight on.

Eyerollcentral · 22/03/2023 22:15

DrMeredithGrey2023 · 22/03/2023 22:09

She didn’t even leave the first time she was pushed.

op says she went to move away after he pushed her the first time

That’s what she would tell her mother though. I would love to be a fly on the wall for the school chat tomorrow. I would put money on the mouth being a lot less Gandhi than the OP would like to believe. My concern here really is the two black boys actually in trouble as a result of her antics. No one has picked up on the daughter’s white saviourism which has back fired massively on the actual victims of racism. Most boys who will push a girl still won’t hit her, they will square up to another boy though. As the OP’s daughter knew.

Lou670 · 22/03/2023 22:16

If it was my child I would have been annoyed with them for bringing trouble to my doorstep and getting unnecessarily involved with something they did not witness first hand. By your own admission she has history for this which is not going to go in her favour with the Headteacher. Rather than being proud of her, maybe explain why she has got the exclusion and to learn from it. Not all 13 year old behave like this, yet you are using her age to explain that most do. Accept the punishment and don't expand this further with the Head.

Elvis1956 · 22/03/2023 22:17

DrMeredithGrey2023 · 22/03/2023 22:06

@Elvis1956 I would imagine she mentioned not wanting to fight because he was physically aggressive towards her when he pushed her the first time.
How I would react in any situation is not going to be the same way that a 13 year old child would react, so what I would do is irrelevant.
She isn't in control of her friends actions.

I think you are, and I am saying this politely, being naive, she knew what would happen. I'm not saying he was right to push her and at 13 I would never have pushed a girl (I'm male btw) but she knew what drama she was causing. Even the op said she expected her daughter to have been heated. I expect she knew things would escalate.

it's the boxing that concerns me. She clearly lacks control. Boxing should have taught her that. Every boxer I have met from 8/9 year old up had that element of control, knowing exactly what violence can do

LondonPretty · 22/03/2023 22:17

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Viviennemary · 22/03/2023 22:19

It was handled badly. A teacher should have been told before violence took place. And getting involved when she didnt even witness the incident. Doesn't sound great.

Elvis1956 · 22/03/2023 22:23

FrippEnos · 22/03/2023 22:08

The only bit that @Elvis1956 has missed is that it was the two boys that hit the other boy that told her that he had said the n word.

Show quote history

So they heard him use the word. Did nothing. Then when the girl got involved chased him down and hit him? Really?

whatever was or wasn't said. Who did it didn't push who the girl caused the whole mess...if I was the alleged racists parents I would have contacted the police about the assault.

sugarspices · 22/03/2023 22:23

@Eyerollcentral so OPs daughter has to take responsibility for the actions of her two friends? How ridiculous. I suspect they were violent towards the boy because he was allegedly racist towards them, and then pushed a girl twice in front of them. It is not OPs daughter's fault that two separate individuals made the daft decision to attack someone else. You seem to expect her to take responsibility for her own actions and those of her friends, yet they should take no responsibility for their own actions?

If she is wrong for not handling this appropriately (which she is) then they are definitely also wrong for the same, except their actions are criminal, and had far worse ramifications.

It's a bunch of kids making stupid decisions, but they are not responsible for each other, only themselves.

Timshortforthalia · 22/03/2023 22:25

A white person using racism to serve their own needs.

Eyerollcentral · 22/03/2023 22:31

No @sugarspices , she has to take responsibility for instigating a serious incident, which is what she is being punished for. She lit the match. She needs to learn how to properly deal with issues. She needs to learn she isn’t the boss. She needs to learn that even well intentioned actions have consequences. She needs to learn she isn’t the police, judge and jury. She needs to learn not to act on rumours. Do you not agree with that?
‘I suspect they were violent towards the boy because he was allegedly racist towards them’ a lot of assumptions. It’s as reasonable for me to assume the OP’s daughter is a mouth who likes starting trouble, as that is how her own mother describes her.
‘You seem to expect her to take responsibility for her own actions and those of her friends, yet they should take no responsibility for their own actions?’ I think it’s pretty clear all the boys will have been punished much more severely than the OP daughter has been. She is responsible for her own actions, which led to a fight. The fight is unlikely to have happened but for her weighing in.

FirstnameSuesecondnamePerb · 22/03/2023 22:31

She sounds exactly like one of my dds at 13. Knew right from wrong and would have done exactly the same.
As a adult, she admitted that she kinds loved the drama of the thing. Being "unfairly punished" would only add to that drama.

Eyerollcentral · 22/03/2023 22:31

Timshortforthalia · 22/03/2023 22:25

A white person using racism to serve their own needs.

💯

TequilaNights · 22/03/2023 22:34

The calling out of racism always needs to happen, but not in the way your daughter chose.

Her actions and the path she chose to go down ended in a serious assault on a young lad, all on hearsay.

Im with the head on this one, and think she got off lightly.

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