Daughter accused of instigating a serious incident. Is she really wrong?

[wasshereallywrong]

I have name changed for this to not link to previous threads as this is outing and I have told people in real life.

I am going to preface this be saying my DD 13 is a gobby little sod so I know she can be annoying and hasn't got the best school record but she has no time for injustice which has led to conflict for her in the past but to todays incident...

My DD has several black friends (we come from a very white area). She was told today that one lad was going around using the N word. This isn't the first time and so she took it upon herself to confront him and tell him it isn't right and it is racist. Like I say she is gobby so I imagine she was heated when she said it. He pushed her away and told her to leave him alone, everyone gathered around and she said she wasn't going to fight and went to move away, he pushed her again and ran off. Two of her friends then caught up with the lad and several punches were thrown. I am not saying the fight was acceptable. It was 2 on 1 and he was hurt and fighting is never ok.

My DD has now been given a day of internal exclusion because she initiated a serious incident. Did she though or did she call out unacceptable racism? Was it not the lad who was using the n word the person who instigated it? I have said that she has to accept that she was wrong to get involved in something that wasn't to do with her but was she wrong? If people don't call out racist behaviour how is it stopped? I am going to be speaking to the head teacher tomorrow as I missed his call today but AIBU to be proud of her for taking a stand against racist behaviour and to be arguing with the punishment for starting this when if he hadn't made the comments it wouldn't have been necessary to 'talk' to him about it. And is the school wrong for punishing someone for calling out this behaviour?

He isn't known by 'you'.

You don't know whether he said the word or not. That's third hand hearsay.

She should have gone to a senior member of staff.

She needs to butt out unless it happens in front of her and really, so do you

What are people reading??

He didn't have to push her twice to get her out of his face - he pushed her, she said she wasn't going to fight, went to move away and he pushed her again.

OP - your daughters heart was obviously in the right place. I have told my children that we must always call out peoples use of slurs, I guess her crime here is that she called him out without hearing it first hand, but tbh, if someone has previous I would probably believe second hand information too.

She behaved like a thug.

Good for her OP! There needs to be more kids like her defending racism. I think the school have treated her terribly considering she walked away from the fight as well but unfortunately maybe they felt their hands were tied.

I didn’t quote you and I haven’t even read any posts by you but cool story thanks for sharing.

Did you miss the part where the girl used words and refused to fight, and nor did she set her friends to fight the other kid? She is not responsible for any of the boys resorting to violence in this incident. They are responsible for their own actions.

I hope the boy is being punished?
Id have done the same as your daughter I’ve witnessed too much shit in my life to put up with racism, especially if it was aimed at my friends.
She chose not to hit or fight with the lad, it was the other kids who were hot-headed.

I have a daughter who sounds quite like yours, OP: same age, cares passionately about justice, a bit gobby. She is also black.

I also know all about the mob dynamics and endless drama at school. The kids basically hunt in packs for someone to have drama with. Sometimes it's 'deserved', sometimes pure gossip. Kid recently had to leave the school because she allegedly used the n word while singing along in an Instagram post. The social media grapevine meant that the mob was waiting for her when she got to her new school, so she left there too.

I have taught my dd as much as I can about racism and how to fight it. But just as important is for them to know that mob justice is not OK, that it very often has unforeseen consequences, and that endless drama is corrosive to everybody involved.

She didn't hear the comments.

She was told about the comments.

This changes the scenario in my opinion.

No kids should go to school and hear this.

As a mother of a mixed race child I’m glad there is children like your dd who aren’t afraid to call this stuff out!

she wasn’t threatening and wasn’t violent….

Give a dog a bad name...

Absolutely. However anyone with a titter of wit could see actually maybe I am making things worse here by rushing in and getting in the face of a boy who is not only allegedly a racist but a known trouble maker. I don’t think she walked up and said excuse me would you please stop using racial slurs, did she? She wailed in for a row, her own mother has described her as Gobby. The upshot is two black kids ended up in a fight. But the OP’s mother is crying because she wants her daughter to be lauded as Nelson Mandela. I am from a place where there is a LONG and tiresome history of people stirring the pot, starting the row and then thousands of other people’s son’s ended up dead or in prison. I suppose that colours my interpretation of the OP’s daughter’s actions. Words can be very powerful and very dangerous when used by someone determined to have a row but not willing to take or throw a punch themselves

She started "beef" (as my teens call it) because of hearsay and because she likes the drama! Imagine if she had incorrectly accused the boy and got him beaten up for no reason - that's unacceptable. She needs to be taught she isn't the police, she isn't Queen Bee, and that any such accusations in the future should go through the teachers.

If the boy is 'trouble' then the school know about him and tbh you should have had a word with your DD before now about not getting involved if you've had gossip about this boy before.
There's a lot wrong with what she did. Including patronising her friends by assuming they couldn't handle the incident or report it. As a PP pointed out, now two of her male friends are in trouble for violent behaviour that wouldn't have happened if she hadn't felt the need to act like the yard policeman on hearsay.

Lately we have had a lot of students 'being told' that other people have used that word. Usually the gobby ones who will do something about it. It is a lot of the time an excuse to try and start a fight that the whole year group will love to watch. It then takes the focus off the racist behaviour (which has happened in some cases and has not in others - nasty rumours designed to her students into trouble) and makes it difficult to investigate true issue. She may have been punished under a joint enterprise rule - this can happen in real life.

The racism needs reporting to school and the school need to deal with it - students should not be judge and jury.

What words did she use? How did she say them? Do you think she went gently in to have a discussion or did she rush in and start shouting the odds? The OP interestingly hasn’t clarified that, she has described her own daughter as gobby. She was punished for instigating the whole row, which she did and she should have been.

Also excusing her behaviour as having no time for injustice is bullshit. She didn't care about the injustice of calling someone out for something based solely on gossip.

Irrelevant to whether or not a girl very clearly refusing to fight - even when she’s being assaulted - is responsible for male violence. It’s victim blaming.

She stood up against racist behaviour but she did instigate this fight. I know she is 13 but she should have spoken to a teacher or even you for you to report it to the school. She started the discussion which must have been heated for this lad to start pushing her. He is of course in no way innocent but he was attacked by 2 others. They should all be penalised for their engagement in this. Yes she stood up for her friends which is great but I guess now she will know that there are better ways to go about it in the future.
This kid is trouble so your daughter should stay awah from him, anything she hears him saying she should report and not get involved with him directly.

Given that the school will have asked the pupils that witnessed the DD "talking" to this boy, she may not be as innocent as the OP would like.

I disagree with many on this thread. I agree with Lamelie, the first post:

"She’s not wrong and if it is as you describe I’d be all over it."

If it's true.

I'd ask for Head Meeting. Sit and wait ti hear what he says. And then I'd insist that she's doing nothing wrong at all. Inciting? She called him on his racism. She can not be held responsible for her 2 friends then taking it much further, their choice. I'd be expecting Head to thus conclude that a punishment is appropriate. But you expect ahead to thus reduce the punishment significantly.

Lately we have had a lot of students 'being told' that other people have used that word.

This is currently a thing at eldest DCs school too. DC was accused of saying it and a pupil tried to have a go at him about it except DC wasn't even in the lesson where he was alleged to have said it as he was doing work elsewhere with his 1:1.

This is why staff need to deal with incidents, not pupils, because rumours spiral.

Interesting thread. I think you’re missing the point. She is being punished for instigating a serious incident, there is absolutely No doubt she did.

if the boy said it then she retaliated it would be different, but that’s not what happened, she has heard he has said it at some point, so she went and confronted him.

The teachers are trying to tell both you and her, this is not ok. It was after the event of him saying it. She has never witnessed him saying it, it’s not about whether he has or hasn’t, it’s about it wasn’t at that time and she personally has never heard him say it. It wasn’t during this altercation at all,she reacted angrily over a rumour. After the event, instead of speaking to a teacher and letting them handle it, to see if it was true and to manage it accordingly.

and as she decided to angrily confront him, when she’d personally never heard him say such a thing, it has resulted in this fight and the boy got hurt. Two kids beat him.

so yes. Your daughter instigated a serious incident and she is part;h culpable for what happened. And with the other kids, she should be punished.

your child needs to learn to manage situations, her emotions, her behaviour. She needs to understand the best way to approach things and at 13 she should have a fair grasp on this appropriate for her age. But I guess it’s not so impressive to the other kids, to quietly speak to a teacher about what she heard.

the last thing she needs is a parent whooping in the corner and trying to kid themselves she’s some sort of crusading vigilante. What she does need is a parent who can explain to her why this punishment happened and why she is culpable in this,

Meh - your daughter thought she was doing the right thing. She will learn through this punishment it's actually the wrong response she used. It sounds like she is being punished for being involved in something that didn't concern her and led to several others being in trouble (she didn't witness the alleged slur) however, to put another perspective across, if someone publicly accused my child of saying something racist, in front of their peers, when they hadn't done so and my child was then assaulted by a further two children I would be furious. I'm not saying the boy did or didn't use a racist slur, but I can imagine the other parents have a different view.

I can see that you're proud of your daughter for calling out (alleged) racism. I would be proud of my child for recognising/challenging it too.

The issues have been repeated on here dozens of time so I won't bother, but you have accepted that she didn't handle things in the right way. She's 13 and kids don't always get it right. Her being punished is a good thing, as hopefully she will learn how to deal with this more effectively in the future.

It should be made clear to her that she isn't being punished for challenging (alleged) racism, but she is being punished for not challenging it appropriately.

It's possible to be simultaneously proud of your daughter for the sentiment, but cross with her for the execution.

We are reading the ops drop feed. Firstly, why did the dd need to mention afight. I've never come across a right minded female who's mentioned, even suggested fighting a male. I bet everyone at school knows she boxes...I find it strange that the op mentioned her boxing ...in an earlier post I surmised that it makes her feel invincible.
Secondly, she heard from a third party that he had been racist. Would you accuse me of being racist if someone told you I was? I expect you would ask me calmly if I was.
Third, even the op admits that her dd is gobby, has her own track record in school.
Finally, we have the fact that 2 boys are also in trouble as a result of her actions. The o p hasn't mentioned how badly the boy who was hit was injured. The 2 boys could have been in a lot of trouble because the DD acted as she did....she instigated everything