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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Daughter accused of instigating a serious incident. Is she really wrong?

738 replies

wasshereallywrong · 22/03/2023 20:37

I have name changed for this to not link to previous threads as this is outing and I have told people in real life.

I am going to preface this be saying my DD 13 is a gobby little sod so I know she can be annoying and hasn't got the best school record but she has no time for injustice which has led to conflict for her in the past but to todays incident...

My DD has several black friends (we come from a very white area). She was told today that one lad was going around using the N word. This isn't the first time and so she took it upon herself to confront him and tell him it isn't right and it is racist. Like I say she is gobby so I imagine she was heated when she said it. He pushed her away and told her to leave him alone, everyone gathered around and she said she wasn't going to fight and went to move away, he pushed her again and ran off. Two of her friends then caught up with the lad and several punches were thrown. I am not saying the fight was acceptable. It was 2 on 1 and he was hurt and fighting is never ok.

My DD has now been given a day of internal exclusion because she initiated a serious incident. Did she though or did she call out unacceptable racism? Was it not the lad who was using the n word the person who instigated it? I have said that she has to accept that she was wrong to get involved in something that wasn't to do with her but was she wrong? If people don't call out racist behaviour how is it stopped? I am going to be speaking to the head teacher tomorrow as I missed his call today but AIBU to be proud of her for taking a stand against racist behaviour and to be arguing with the punishment for starting this when if he hadn't made the comments it wouldn't have been necessary to 'talk' to him about it. And is the school wrong for punishing someone for calling out this behaviour?

OP posts:
AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 10:15

Jonei · 23/03/2023 10:02

It would seem so. So if someone goes and punches AllOfThemWitches because they've decided she's a racist, then AllOfThemWitches will think that's ok.

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Like I've said, never happened believe it or not. Stop pretending it's not extremely likely the kid was using racist slurs. He should think himself lucky he was taught a lesson by kids his own age rather than someone who would have done more damage. I imagine one look at his parents and home life would be very telling.

Mothership4two · 23/03/2023 10:19

AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 08:54

The problem here is that posters have decided OP/her daughter is lying. Funny how some posts are taken at face value and others aren't.

If my DSs (generally good kids) had been excluded and come to me with this exact story I would have taken it with a pinch of salt and reserved judgement until I had spoken to the school. Teenagers sometimes lie and people in trouble sometimes massage the truth. Just because there was some cynicism that doesn't mean people are siding with a racist! OP has since stated that the head of year now believes her daughter also (hmm 100%?). So she calls out someone for being racist, verbally states she isn't going to fight despite being hot under the collar, is assaulted twice and is not involved in a fight - I would want to know exactly what grounds my child was being excluded if I was in OP's shoes

Jonei · 23/03/2023 10:22

AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 10:15

Like I've said, never happened believe it or not. Stop pretending it's not extremely likely the kid was using racist slurs. He should think himself lucky he was taught a lesson by kids his own age rather than someone who would have done more damage. I imagine one look at his parents and home life would be very telling.

Show quote history

It may have been the first time for that kid as well. I have no idea if that child did or not. And nor do you. Your gut feeling is neither evidence nor fact. And backing this type of violence is quite unstable irrational behaviour.

potniatheron · 23/03/2023 10:23

Sounds more like she nad her two friends were bullying this boy and when rightly pulled up on it decided to excuse their behaviour by smearing him with the worst crime (racism) they could think of

Jonei · 23/03/2023 10:24

I would want to know exactly what grounds my child was being excluded if I was in OP's shoes

If I was the parent of the boy who had been attacked with no evidence, I would absolutely insist that the other child was excluded. I'd probably involve the police and take it further as well if faced with parents who think their child has done a good thing.

StayBased · 23/03/2023 10:45

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ReadersD1gest · 23/03/2023 11:06

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Not just lefties, your post would suggest!

dottypotter · 23/03/2023 11:09

wasshereallywrong · 22/03/2023 20:37

I have name changed for this to not link to previous threads as this is outing and I have told people in real life.

I am going to preface this be saying my DD 13 is a gobby little sod so I know she can be annoying and hasn't got the best school record but she has no time for injustice which has led to conflict for her in the past but to todays incident...

My DD has several black friends (we come from a very white area). She was told today that one lad was going around using the N word. This isn't the first time and so she took it upon herself to confront him and tell him it isn't right and it is racist. Like I say she is gobby so I imagine she was heated when she said it. He pushed her away and told her to leave him alone, everyone gathered around and she said she wasn't going to fight and went to move away, he pushed her again and ran off. Two of her friends then caught up with the lad and several punches were thrown. I am not saying the fight was acceptable. It was 2 on 1 and he was hurt and fighting is never ok.

My DD has now been given a day of internal exclusion because she initiated a serious incident. Did she though or did she call out unacceptable racism? Was it not the lad who was using the n word the person who instigated it? I have said that she has to accept that she was wrong to get involved in something that wasn't to do with her but was she wrong? If people don't call out racist behaviour how is it stopped? I am going to be speaking to the head teacher tomorrow as I missed his call today but AIBU to be proud of her for taking a stand against racist behaviour and to be arguing with the punishment for starting this when if he hadn't made the comments it wouldn't have been necessary to 'talk' to him about it. And is the school wrong for punishing someone for calling out this behaviour?

You can't prove the other though, whereas it's a fact you daughter started a confrontation. That's the reason.

TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 23/03/2023 11:15

Oysterbabe · 22/03/2023 20:41

I think that yabu. She was involved in the whole thing. The school can't encourage vigilante justice, she should have spoken to a teacher about him.

If DD's account is correct, she had fuck-all to do with the ensuing violence.

Presuming that the person using the N-word was white, if you think objecting to racist language is "vigilante justice" you need to have a word with yourself.

TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 23/03/2023 11:18

dottypotter · 23/03/2023 11:09

You can't prove the other though, whereas it's a fact you daughter started a confrontation. That's the reason.

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Telling somebody (if they are white) not to use the N-word isn't starting a confrontation, it's the response of somebody who dislikes racism & isn't prepared to brush it under the carpet.

OP's DD isn't accountable for the fact that other people decided to have a scuffle, following her perfectly reasonable objection to racist language.

5128gap · 23/03/2023 11:32

The only way your DD should be held in any way accountable here is if she deliberately encouraged the two boys to attack the one who had used the racist slur.
From what you've said it seems that she is being scapegoated for her well meaning if ill executed attempt to challenge racism. Which is a sad but not uncommon situation where 'gobby' girls are disproportionately held responsible for incidents involving male bad behaviour.
The culpable people are the boy who was racist and the two who responded with violence. It seems to me your DD doesnt need punishment, but guidance on how to handle these situations to avoid escalating them, which is a tough ask for adults when it's a situation thats obviously going to cause heightened emotions; never mind a 13 year old. I'm sorry this happened to your DD.

henrilechat · 23/03/2023 11:34

Jesus Christ. This thread is awful. Words are not violence. The girl didn't start this fight, she tried to walk away.
Yes she could have handled it better and talked to a teacher. But she called someone out for being racist. How does she deserve all the vitriol everyone is throwing at her?

SorryButThatsAFact · 23/03/2023 11:38

But she didn't. She instigated an incident that resulted in violence, based on ALLEGED racism. It's not confirmed. I'm not saying the boy was innocent, but we can't categorically state that he wasn't. Whereas the girl's actions are not in doubt.

Friarclose · 23/03/2023 11:39

I say good for her. Probably an unpopular opinion but he sounds like a 💩 stain. She was gonna walk away but he pushed her, therefore he's to blame fir the violence. I'd be proud of her

Mothership4two · 23/03/2023 11:41

Jonei · 23/03/2023 10:24

I would want to know exactly what grounds my child was being excluded if I was in OP's shoes

If I was the parent of the boy who had been attacked with no evidence, I would absolutely insist that the other child was excluded. I'd probably involve the police and take it further as well if faced with parents who think their child has done a good thing.

According to OP, DD and, apparently, now the head of year, she was not involved in the attack but he twice pushed her even though she verbally told him that she wasn't going to fight him. It doesn't make sense to me.

The attackers and the racist boy should be significantly punished if this is what actually happened

bellabasset · 23/03/2023 11:44

Reading your initial post it seems unfair that your dd is being excluded. But then you realise that she's in a school setting where the procedure was to report it. I think if she was my dd I'd tell her I was proud of her for calling the boy out but the result was two people started a fight. I'd explain that had any of those boys had a knife there could have been a serious injury. So she'll learn to keep herself safe and what to do in future. Impulse reactions can have serious consequences.

Sallydimebar · 23/03/2023 12:00

“Telling somebody (if they are white) not to use the N-word isn't starting a confrontation, it's the response of somebody who dislikes racism & isn't prepared to brush it under the carpet.
OP's DD isn't accountable for the fact that other people decided to have a scuffle, following her perfectly reasonable objection to racist language.”

That is perfectly acceptable if you HEAR someone say the N-word or any racist language 100% pull them up on it but she didn’t . You can’t just assume either because of this boys past behaviour he did and warrants a beating up. Sadly Op’s Dd caused enough commotion for a group to gather round based on rumours.
It probably won’t stop there now I suspect,not sure how badly boy was injured but he’s going to be back in school with friends who will be looking for some sort of revenge against the two who beat him up with Ops Dd probably being involved again .

AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 12:15

SorryButThatsAFact · 23/03/2023 11:38

But she didn't. She instigated an incident that resulted in violence, based on ALLEGED racism. It's not confirmed. I'm not saying the boy was innocent, but we can't categorically state that he wasn't. Whereas the girl's actions are not in doubt.

So the girl confronted the boy for using disgusting language. The boy could have said 'no, that's wrong, I wouldn't use racist slurs' but instead he assaulted her. He sounds lovely.

ReadersD1gest · 23/03/2023 12:19

AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 12:15

So the girl confronted the boy for using disgusting language. The boy could have said 'no, that's wrong, I wouldn't use racist slurs' but instead he assaulted her. He sounds lovely.

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How did he assault her? I took it that she was in his face and he pushed her away.

AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 12:21

ReadersD1gest · 23/03/2023 12:19

How did he assault her? I took it that she was in his face and he pushed her away.

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If you don't think pushing someone is assault, I can't really explain it to you. Also where does it say she was 'in his face?' Is that your gut feeling?

FrippEnos · 23/03/2023 12:23

AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 12:21

If you don't think pushing someone is assault, I can't really explain it to you. Also where does it say she was 'in his face?' Is that your gut feeling?

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even the OP says that it was probably "heated".

lazycats · 23/03/2023 12:24

If it's exactly as you describe then she's been hard done by. But that's only her side of the story.

AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 12:25

FrippEnos · 23/03/2023 12:23

even the OP says that it was probably "heated".

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That doesn't mean her daughter was 'in' anyone's face...

ReadersD1gest · 23/03/2023 12:25

AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 12:21

If you don't think pushing someone is assault, I can't really explain it to you. Also where does it say she was 'in his face?' Is that your gut feeling?

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She was presumably close enough that he had to push past her to get away.
A gobby little sod ranting into your face in a "heated" manner, of course he wasn't going to stand like a statue while she carried on.

AllOfThemWitches · 23/03/2023 12:26

He 'had' to put his hands on her, did he? Jesus.