Daughter accused of instigating a serious incident. Is she really wrong?

[wasshereallywrong]

I have name changed for this to not link to previous threads as this is outing and I have told people in real life.

I am going to preface this be saying my DD 13 is a gobby little sod so I know she can be annoying and hasn't got the best school record but she has no time for injustice which has led to conflict for her in the past but to todays incident...

My DD has several black friends (we come from a very white area). She was told today that one lad was going around using the N word. This isn't the first time and so she took it upon herself to confront him and tell him it isn't right and it is racist. Like I say she is gobby so I imagine she was heated when she said it. He pushed her away and told her to leave him alone, everyone gathered around and she said she wasn't going to fight and went to move away, he pushed her again and ran off. Two of her friends then caught up with the lad and several punches were thrown. I am not saying the fight was acceptable. It was 2 on 1 and he was hurt and fighting is never ok.

My DD has now been given a day of internal exclusion because she initiated a serious incident. Did she though or did she call out unacceptable racism? Was it not the lad who was using the n word the person who instigated it? I have said that she has to accept that she was wrong to get involved in something that wasn't to do with her but was she wrong? If people don't call out racist behaviour how is it stopped? I am going to be speaking to the head teacher tomorrow as I missed his call today but AIBU to be proud of her for taking a stand against racist behaviour and to be arguing with the punishment for starting this when if he hadn't made the comments it wouldn't have been necessary to 'talk' to him about it. And is the school wrong for punishing someone for calling out this behaviour?

I’m a teacher and there is very little we can do if we don’t hear it.
Someone else has said it, she’s turned down a fight, someone else has had a fight. Why is she in trouble?

Your daughter sounds like me at that age and I’m an adult in my fifties and still have the same personality traits.

As far as I’m concerned, if you think there’s an issue you deal with it by speaking directly to the other person and having a conversation. Children are just as entitled to raise difficult issues amongst their peers without having adults hovering to police their interactions. I’d also firmly point out that she isn’t responsible for the actions of the other students who decided to start a physical fight.

Yes, she was wrong and deserves to be punished. Her actions led to a child being assaulted. She should have spoken to a teacher and left it with them to investigate. Regardless of whether the boy actually said it or not, children cannot be allowed to sort these things out amongst themselves. Either he said it, in which case the school need to address it properly, or he didn't in which case a group of thugs picked a fight with someone for no reason.

No, I disagree. If children sort it out amongst themselves the school has no record and no knowledge that its pupils are using racist language. Leave it to the adults to investigate and deal with things properly.

As this incident clearly shows, vigilante justice often leads to violence.

Maybe because there is no evidence he is racist?
OPs daughter was reacting to something she was told he said.
Perhaps he is racist and if he is heard to use this word he should be told it’s not acceptable and then reported to a teacher.
OPs daughter acted as judge and jury here

How can the OP say if it is as you say it is? She wasn't there! All she has to go on is a 13 year old's version of why she is being excluded which she seems to 100% believe (along with quite a lot of posters on here).

Is it really ok to go and accuse someone of racism when there is no actual evidence? Just based on hearsay? And those actions then cause another child gets injured because of it? To the adults here cheering that behaviour on?

Is that really where we're at now?

How would you feel if your child had been accused and subsequently attacked? Based on some kangaroo court set up?

Is that really ok? Do some of you even know the difference between right and wrong? Is the the role model you want to be for your children?

The problem here is that posters have decided OP/her daughter is lying. Funny how some posts are taken at face value and others aren't.

The truth is, the op and her daughter dont know the truth.

Not true.
Even if I believed the daughters version of events I still think she acted badly

I'm inclined to think if a kid is capable of violence towards girls, he's capable of being a racist little shit. I mean, we all knew a boy like this in school.

Well it is true, your whole 'even if I believed her' thing clearly suggests as much.

Absolutely, and what if someone a lot more aggressive and violent hears the daughter's tale and decides its true and decides to enact their own violence on this child? According to some here that's OK because of what's basically gossip!

Ok, assuming I believe her then.
I have no reason not to

@Dotjones

As this incident clearly shows, vigilante justice often leads to violence.

Talk about stretching the truth to fit the narrative. 🙄

Kids arguing amongst themselves is a normal everyday occurrence and while they’re doing this, they are also learning valuable skills to take with them into adulthood. Otherwise, how will they learn to manage conflict between grown adults?

Surely you don’t really expect a child to complain to a teacher over every disagreement with a fellow pupil? What life skills are they learning from that? Conflict avoidance seems to be endemic on Mumsnet (amongst younger women?), and that definitely isn’t healthy.

If the boys who heard the language are so capable of handling matters themselves, why did they tattle to your daughter and why did she then instigate a retaliation? It sounds like she may be a ringleader who manages to avoid getting her hands dirty...

Personally, I can't stand "gobby" teens. Most of the ones I grew up with were not as agreeable as you are trying to make your daughter sound. They were rough trouble makers, and definitely "a type". Maybe you are also gobby so don't see it as a problem.

Obviously racism should be dealt with. But by reporting to teachers, not kicking the shit out of someone.

Violent to girls? It sounds as though she was in his face, he pushed her to get away from her, and then he gets attacked by her male mates. And that makes him a racist shit too? He's in a no win situation here isn't he. Do you think that's ok? Is this the warped logic you teach your own kids? What if someone treated your child like this? Would you feel ok about that understand the circumstances? And if not, ask yourself why.

Surely you don’t really expect a child to complain to a teacher over every disagreement with a fellow pupil?

Much preferable to decide some kid is guilty and beat them up right rather than speaking to a teacher / someone in authority about it.

Oh. Wait....

Oh wait…she didn’t actually touch him did she? 🤷🏻‍♀️

So you’d mouth off at someone and get them a kicking over hearsay. You sound utterly stupid.

I wasn't going to come back to this thread because I know my daughter and the names she has been called on here were hard to hear. She is 13, a child. We have talked about the incident a lot. I believe and her head of year believe it is exactly as she told it. I have talked to her and told her that she shouldn't have got involved. I have said she should go to a member of staff next time.

Only about 3 people at school know she boxes @Elvis1956 so no it doesn't make her feel invincible or special. She uses it for her mental health which, for reasons I won't disclose, isn't great.

I said she was a hobby little sod in my op mainly because I didn't want people thinking I was one of those parents who thinks my kid can do no wrong. She is a 13 year old. A normal 13 year old, she doesn't think she is special or anything else, she has dyslexia and adhd and struggles in a school environment but is trying her hardest to jmprove as is confirmed by her teachers. She made a mistake, she is owning her actions and after this thread we have talked about what to do next time. There will be a next time because that is who this boy is. I have said previously that the fight was wrong. It is never ok and I nor she would want someone hurt like that. She didn't ask or tell her mates to do that. That was their choice. She actually said 'I'm not fighting you' why would she want someone else to do it? She cares about her friends, they are good friends to her and her to them, she thought she was looking out for them, why would she want them to get in trouble?

Why do her two male friends need her to look out for them? Being a "gobby little sod" isn't half as charming as you seem to imagine, tbh.
She sounds fairly obnoxious, and needs her wings clipped a bit.

I'd be proud of her for standing up to it, but I'd also be explaining that there are ways she could have done it to stay within the rules, and unfortunately as she was involved in the altercation she needs to accept her punishment. (Secretly though, wtg her!)

Wow you are unbelievable.

Ok, time for you to help your daughter understand the different types of anger and the power of righteous anger. Irrespective of what the school does. Look it up on internet and have a sit down chat to go through examples of each type both you and her have experienced

Tell her she’s not wrong in being angry and frustrated (or whatever types of anger she did express) etc by the racists behaviour. Hen ask her what she achieved in expressing her anger that way - did it make her feel good? Was it ever really likely to have changed bullies behaviour ? Etc. then ask her,if she taken a deep breath to stay calm, and then engaged her thinking brain to figure out how to unleash her righteous anger power, what could she have done to actually change that bullies behaviour? Get her thinking about alternatives, mightn’t been going to a teacher but there is other stuff…like a personal protest type thing

it’s a great opportunity to teach her that anger is ok, she wasn’t wrong in her intent and you’re proud of her in having that intent, but she needs to be less goby and more controlled to utilise her brain and the power of righteous anger