Daughter accused of instigating a serious incident. Is she really wrong?

[wasshereallywrong]

I have name changed for this to not link to previous threads as this is outing and I have told people in real life.

I am going to preface this be saying my DD 13 is a gobby little sod so I know she can be annoying and hasn't got the best school record but she has no time for injustice which has led to conflict for her in the past but to todays incident...

My DD has several black friends (we come from a very white area). She was told today that one lad was going around using the N word. This isn't the first time and so she took it upon herself to confront him and tell him it isn't right and it is racist. Like I say she is gobby so I imagine she was heated when she said it. He pushed her away and told her to leave him alone, everyone gathered around and she said she wasn't going to fight and went to move away, he pushed her again and ran off. Two of her friends then caught up with the lad and several punches were thrown. I am not saying the fight was acceptable. It was 2 on 1 and he was hurt and fighting is never ok.

My DD has now been given a day of internal exclusion because she initiated a serious incident. Did she though or did she call out unacceptable racism? Was it not the lad who was using the n word the person who instigated it? I have said that she has to accept that she was wrong to get involved in something that wasn't to do with her but was she wrong? If people don't call out racist behaviour how is it stopped? I am going to be speaking to the head teacher tomorrow as I missed his call today but AIBU to be proud of her for taking a stand against racist behaviour and to be arguing with the punishment for starting this when if he hadn't made the comments it wouldn't have been necessary to 'talk' to him about it. And is the school wrong for punishing someone for calling out this behaviour?

If he wasn't using the word at the time she confronted him, then yes she instigated an incident.

Wasn’t she responding to her own personal sense of injustice, though? We all assume her actions were white saviourist but one questions why white people don’t see racism as offensive to all.

Your DD needs to be wary of others using her as it might possibly have been in this case. She did not hear the racist remarks but was told about them and went to confront him. For all we know, this boy upset those that told your DD about his remarks and they used her to get at him. To do their dirty work so to speak.

This!!

Which white people?

The Op clearly talks about how she feels the need to defend her friends.

What you have said here is typical white saviour thinking. Something awful happens to someone else and they step in because they personally find it offensive. Often disempowering the person it actually happened to. Many of us have asked Op why she felt the need to handle something that happened to someone else, in a way that she believed it should be dealt with.

no answer.

On the one hand you argue they have a mind of their own and choose their own actions. On the other hand argue that they couldn’t deal with it themselves and needed the dd to deal with it. Because her feelings were hurt by it.

Why did how she wanted deal with it and her emotions become the priority?

She wasn't wrong at all.

She may have tackled it clumsily, but then she can be taught a better approach.

Excluding her for confronting racism is wrong. Go see the HT and if you get no where ask to speak to the chair of Governors. Educate the school tgey got this very vadly wrong.

Good luck.

BTW a very strong sense of injustice can be an indicator of neurodiversity. It's harder to spot in girls, so pls consider if your DD might be neurodiverse.

This thread definitely stayed up till well past its bedtime.

But the boy saying N was hearsay

You dont go barging in, calling someone out, because of hearsay

That's called bullying

So yes, your daughter was wrong to start this and yes, she should be disciplined

Some kids love a bit of drama. You're daughter instigated it and got it. You see a hero. I see a trouble maker. I can't bear these girls. Having had two girls go through secondary and now a son going through secondary, you can see the type.

It's the race equivalent of men speaking for women. Some women might appreciate it. Other women would rather speak for themselves and don't take kindly to men thinking they can fight their battles for them (because it comes from a sense of power and privilege).

Has the other party been disciplined as well?

Because if they did use racist language and push your daughter twice then they should also be excluded.

I would be happy of both sides were spoken to and got equal punishments. As well as those ''threw punches''.

They all need to learn that racism is unacceptable but also that trying to resolve arguments with physical violence is not the answer.

@Tomkirkman
*
Your son heard a racist comment and took action. That’s not what happened here.*

Where did she say that her son took action?

He got angry and the teacher sided with him.

So some action took place, even if it was only showing his anger.

Agree with this.

The only slight difference would be depending on the way she said it. If she was aggressive and used abusive language in saying what she said, cornered him prompting the push away or anything like that then she escalated things. But if it is as she says it went, then no he had plenty of opportunity to explain the situation and didnt need to push etc.

OP I would be cautious that with young teens there's often more to it that they say and I know when I was at school I saw situations with the gobby kids where they would 'passionately' go for someone verbally until there was a physical reaction.

Not necessarily. If we believe in anti racism then it is also the responsibility of non black people to call out anti black racism - the burden doesn’t rest with black people alone.

I think of white saviourism as a way of drawing attention to whiteness (white superiority) and is therefore not anti racist. I assume this girl is genuine but who knows?

I apologise in advance for using such “black and white” language but am open to being corrected if I should be using other terms.

To your question, I don't think your daughter has done something that warrants an exclusion, if her version of events matches the truth. That said, she definitely hasn't handled it in the best way.

Looking at the wider picture though, some things come up in your posts that might be worth reflecting on. You call her "gobby" a few times, and you say you feel "proud" of her - both of these are examples of how you might be (albeit unknowingly) encouraging her behaviour, rather than helping her become a calm, reasonable adult who doesn't end up in situations like these. For example - she doesn't have to be gobby. But a mentality of "that's just the way she is", rather than active encouragement to be less confrontational, will make her believe nothing can be changed.

Not trying to criticize, just saying that your choice of words in how you express your judgement of these things is super important to her development. Especially at 13.

That’s not similar. It was a poster and No violence was involved

If men see their peers exhibiting sexist behaviour then I think they should call it out.

There have been so many times in my own life when I have been the only poc in a workplace and have had to deal with racism and sexism on my own. It takes a mental and physical toll. I would have loved for at least one person to stand with me. It would have been such a relief.

They are all young and learning how to behave and how their actions can have consequences that they did not foresee.

I don't think it's that your daughter was the person most in the wrong here - so much as she should be encouraged to think about what she was trying to achieve by her actions, what the actual result was and whether there was a course of action that would have been more effective/sensible in light of that.

Standing up for your friends is an understandable instinct and a good impulse. I don't think she is responsible for the choices the other three boys made and it was maybe difficult for her to think about how everyone would respond to her actions. But her choices did escalate the conflict rather than de-escalate it and I can understand why the school want her to learn that seeking people out to confront them in public about something they might have said isn't helpful.

She wanted this boy to learn that racism is wrong. And it is. But I worry that will not be the message he takes away from the day's events. It needed careful handling by the school.

The girl didn't even hear any racist comments. She just went off on one based on hearsay because she's the type of person who likes to hear her own voice. We all know someone like that. Full of opinions and no facts. She wasn't "calling out racism". She didn't witness any racism to call out. She just wanted to act like Billy Big Balls in front of her friends.

As a WOC, I'm appalled by this take. You're condoning a serious incident based on nothing more than hearsay.

Don't be silly

Good for her,I'm on your Daughter's side!

I stood up against crap like that at school when I was a similar age and younger and I'm still friends with those I stood up for(and I'm nearly 48)and they've never forgotten about the arseholes who treated them like that and they've never forgotten about the one who stood up for them and stood with them.

If you're Daughter didn't hit him, didn't push him and didn't incite other students to hit him then I don't believe she should be getting punished! The boy that thinks its acceptable to be racist is the one who should be dealt with harshly!

I would suspect your daughter's previous school record / antics have led the school to come to this conclusion. If it is as you say it is, then your daughter is not in the wrong. The instigator is the boy who used that awful language.

Terrible take. You made this about sexism when it's clearly 'girl with previous history of behaviour and attitude problems instigates violent incident based on hearsay.' If she hadn't have caused a confrontation, it wouldn't have happened. End of.