Daughter accused of instigating a serious incident. Is she really wrong?

[wasshereallywrong]

I have name changed for this to not link to previous threads as this is outing and I have told people in real life.

I am going to preface this be saying my DD 13 is a gobby little sod so I know she can be annoying and hasn't got the best school record but she has no time for injustice which has led to conflict for her in the past but to todays incident...

My DD has several black friends (we come from a very white area). She was told today that one lad was going around using the N word. This isn't the first time and so she took it upon herself to confront him and tell him it isn't right and it is racist. Like I say she is gobby so I imagine she was heated when she said it. He pushed her away and told her to leave him alone, everyone gathered around and she said she wasn't going to fight and went to move away, he pushed her again and ran off. Two of her friends then caught up with the lad and several punches were thrown. I am not saying the fight was acceptable. It was 2 on 1 and he was hurt and fighting is never ok.

My DD has now been given a day of internal exclusion because she initiated a serious incident. Did she though or did she call out unacceptable racism? Was it not the lad who was using the n word the person who instigated it? I have said that she has to accept that she was wrong to get involved in something that wasn't to do with her but was she wrong? If people don't call out racist behaviour how is it stopped? I am going to be speaking to the head teacher tomorrow as I missed his call today but AIBU to be proud of her for taking a stand against racist behaviour and to be arguing with the punishment for starting this when if he hadn't made the comments it wouldn't have been necessary to 'talk' to him about it. And is the school wrong for punishing someone for calling out this behaviour?

I’ve reached further to scratch my own ear.

So your daughter didn't actually hear the boy being racist today? Someone just told her about it, then she took it upon herself to "white knight" and confront him, which then led to the boy getting beat up by her backup boys. Yeah, your daughter instigated this. She caused the chain of events which resulted in someone getting hurt and two other people getting into much more serious trouble than she did I imagine.

There are ways and means to tackle racism. Ganging up on one person in the playground is not the smart way to do it. As she hopefully now releases.

No I didn’t? Explain to me your reasoning for saying Gandhi himself was violent first. Then go back and re read my post and note that referencing Gandhi in the first place was a slightly tongue in cheek reference to how the OP’s daughter isn’t a paragon of non violent resistance and then read the post again and try and see what the actual point of it was 🤣🤣🤣

So, all of those things go without saying. Yet you have felt the need to say, multiple times, how you think the girl is a troublemaker, but not once until this point that the boy who pushed her was in the wrong and should be punished for doing so.

It’s interesting which of the things that ‘go without saying’ you’re feeling the need to say. Over and over again.

Additionally, stating that a girl who got pushed twice ‘isn’t a victim’ because she ‘kicked off the row’ is precisely the sort of rhetoric used to justify VAWG.

She wasn’t being ‘clever’. Gandhi was extremely racist: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/03/what-did-mahatma-gandhi-think-of-black-people/

🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Sorry, should I have called you a ‘muppet’ as opposed to sharing a link?

I don’t think I’ve said the daughter is a troublemaker. I have said, as her own mother said, that she is a mouth or in English common parlance, a gobby little sod. Her mother also highlighted she doesn’t have a great school record for behaviour. I also literally just said that any pupil who touches another pupil should be punished. As I said, for any normal human being that goes without saying.
‘Additionally, stating that a girl who got pushed twice ‘isn’t a victim’ because she ‘kicked off the row’ is precisely the sort of rhetoric used to justify VAWG.’ It can be, you are correct. It can also be true this girl is not the victim here. She is has been identified by the people who were there as the instigator. She walked up to another child and made accusations against him, that she actually doesn’t know are true, in a manner that her own mother says she has no doubt was ‘heated’. He could well be a racist and if he is the school should come down on him like a tonne of bricks. That isn’t actually the question here. She isn’t the school police. She isn’t in charge of enforcing the school rules. She could have just as easily, indeed much more easily for all concerned, have gone and told a teacher about the RUMOUR she had heard. She didn’t use her words in a calm and measured manner. She got in the face of another pupil who pushed her away. If the shoe was on the other foot and she had pushed a boy away in similar circumstances, would you still be saying he was the victim 🧐

There’s nothing wrong with what she did at all from the perspective that she’s told you. I don’t think she needed to pass through a teacher first, she’s well within her right to express her disgust and opinion towards this boy. However, the fact the the school escalated this makes me wonder if the whole pushing/hurting scenario involved her a bit more?

YES 🙌🏼

Her friends chose not to confront this boy, but she forced the confrontation and it escalated and now they are suspended. I don't think she was necessarily a good friend. I relate, because I used to be like that myself. It is a bit white savior though. Racism is more than just bad words in the playground and as a white person it's hard to see what's going on. She should have respected their choice not to confront.

Personally I think it's better when a white person confronts a racist, if people did that more often it wouldn't normalise it. Usually the reason the victim of racism doesn't do it because a. They're used to it and b. They don't want to add 'fuel' or satisfy the person with a reaction. I say good on her for standing up for what's right.

Well done to your daughter for doing the right thing calling out racism.

DD had the right motives but her actions were wrong.

She should have taken it to a teacher.

I've no reason to think what I am about to type next happened, just a pause for thought and maybe something others might want to discuss with their teens.

There is a 'thing' going around at the moment where some children sell an 'N word pass' to their friends, this allows the friend to use that word for a day / week.

It's not always an N word, other racial slurs are also 'sold'.

she was wrong to get involved in something that wasn't to do with her

No, that wasn’t the problem at all. Good for her: too many people turn away because it’s ‘not to do with them’.

Interesting that the school have held a girl responsible for a violent boy getting beaten up. Are girls supposed to keep quiet and know their place? She refused to fight.

Yes she could better have sought help from staff but their focus seems not to be on the behaviour of racist little thugs.

I’ve tried to answer everything you’ve said so if I haven’t responded to you I’m afraid you’ll have to spell out to me what it is you actually want me to respond to.
‘As someone who was once a black kid in a school filled with people like you, you’re being VERY on brand. Right down to the ridiculing of black people (your responses to @Sillymummy295 while purporting to be worried about the ‘two black kids’ and condemning ‘white saviourism’. ‘ I’m reporting you now. I haven’t ridiculed any black person on this thread or ever. That’s a disgraceful accusation to make of me. I am concerned about two black kids who now are classed as violent after a white girl stirred up a row. Not sure how any response of mine has been more ridiculing to the poster you referred to than any response she has given to any one else. VERY on brand for what? Please spell it out.

Your DD sounds like a bully and troublemaker.

Neither you nor her seem to see that though.

The daughter sounds like a nightmare.

Did he use the n word on them? Or was it all hearsay? If he said it directly to them then it would have been between them and not involved your DD. If it's all hearsay (how did your DD know it had been said? Who told her?) then it was basically an incident which someone stirred up, including your DD.

I think your DD has something to learn here and honestly, without the exclusion, do you think your DD would learn it?

I am not white. I can’t stand it when white people wade in a situation and inflame the situation. I am always completely confused why they believe non white people can’t handle it or are handling it incorrectly, so we must need them to sort it.

I am still non the wiser why Ops dd felt that she had to step in and handle this. Why she felt the boys it happened to couldn’t?

A bit of mob justice wasn’t going to help anyone.

and I am going to guess, again, that Ops dd is often found at the root of loads of trouble or drama.

You seem to not be giving any importance to the idea that your daughter was told something by a third party. If she was in a conversation and a racist comment was made about her friend I would back her to the hilt that she stood up for them. But some other 13 year old told her something and instead of going to a teacher to sort out she’s taken upon herself to be judge and jury. This is not something to be proud of - sounds like she just wants drama rather than justice.