to think that people who attack "woke" shouldn't be surprised when institutions like the Met Police are found to be institutionally sexist, racist, homophobic etc

[cakeorwine]

It reminds me of the scene in Casablanca when the police inspector is shocked at finding gambling at Ricks.

The right wing media attack "woke" all the time. There seems to be an issue when people speak up, try to do things differently, try to change a culture at a place.

And then they act shocked when it's found that the Met Police have a culture of misogyny, racism, homophobia etc.

Given all the attacks on people who try to change a culture, to try to get people to see other points of view, to try to speak up about diversity issues, it's not surprising that it doesn't seem to have been taken seriously and tolerated as trying to make changes would be seen as "woke" and the right wing media would turn on them.

I think you’re ignoring the huge middle ground between the right wing and extremes of enforced culture changes.
Many people may have personal reasons for not wanting to engage within certain changes, such as proclaiming their female identity in a sexist workplace, but do support strongly the right for others to be free from harassment.
I think 99% of people neither fully support every ‘woke’ idea, or support any right-wing views.
We need to remember this isn’t about a tribal identity. It’s about needing to have a sensible conversation and learning how to give everyone a voice, and listening to each other properly.

The right wing media are fanning the flames of the "woke" debate and seem to constantly attack any move towards changing workplaces, looking at diversity, diversity training etc.

And then they get outraged when change doesn't happen and the Met is seen to be sexist, racist etc.

People may not be on board with every change - of course not, but the right wing media should not be surprised when organisations are found to be sexist etc because if you get villified for trying to change a culture, you won't do it.

Yes, if it wasn't for women complaining about the police harassment over trivial events like hanging ribbons out, there'd be no more mysogyny in the police force.

Stupid women.

Whilst I don't support the cancel culture or enforcement of pronouns - it doesn't make me responsible for Wayne Couzens.

They're our only choices are they?

One extreme or the other?

That's all we've got?

Nothing in the middle?

Crikey.

I don't support some of the "woke" agenda, I do support some of it.

I can still hate what some Police officers are like, and still support our hard working Police officers.

It's not black and white.

The sexism and racism in the Met way pre-exists “woke culture”, it was raised as an issue decades ago. It takes more than a bit of diversity training to eradicate - from recruitment and basic training to challenging locker room culture, bystander inaction, management culture etc etc. That doesn’t mean people with legitimate concerns about, for example, identity politics are responsible for the appalling mistreatment of anyone that isn’t an able bodied, white male.

The right wing media are fanning the flames of the "woke" debate and seem to constantly attack any move towards changing workplaces, looking at diversity, diversity training etc.
Did you note that the Met haven't been accused of transphobia?
"Woke" is all the rainbow lanyards and dancing at Pride festivals - the police are great at that. But protecting PoC, LGB and women? - not so much.

Of course not.

But with constant attacks on "woke", constant villification in the media of people who try to introduce changes, it should not surprise people that people feel they can get away with attitudes as it can be seen to be tolerated by some.

And people who speak up, who try to make a difference are criticised as being "woke" so end up not bothering because who wants all the attacks that come from that.

How about apply common sense, why is that never an option?

It doesn’t help that “woke” has become a meaningless catch all term for everything the right wing media disapproves of, ranging from mildly progressive to batshit radical.

I am very much in favour of the police being held to account for institutional sexism and racism (alongside other institutions), but very opposed to gender self ID and concerned about the medicalisation of gender uncertainty in children. Does that make me woke? Who fucking knows.

People throw it around as an insult without knowing what they are actually saying, very much the modern equivalent of “political correctness gone mad”. Often this is just backwards people who disapprove of any kind of progressive political agenda. The word needs to get in the bin.

But with constant attacks on "woke", constant villification in the media of people who try to introduce changes,

It might help if you defined what you mean by “woke”.

Either extreme is dangerous.

most people have enough critical thinking and common sense to be able to fall somewhere sensibly in the middle.

Rainbow police cars and arresting people for thought crimes go hand in hand with dangerous misogyny, they’re not the antidote to it.

You’re wrong.

What do you mean by woke? It doesn’t really mean anything in your context from what I can see. Or it means everything?

If sexist, misogynist movements are woke are women fighting against it right wing or also woke?

Careers like the Police are always going to attract the bullies and power hungry.

That, combined with a toxic work environment, will make the good ones leave for their own sakes and allow the bullies to flourish.

Theres this massive bit in the middle where we just expect the police to behave like decent human beings.

I don’t need the police to hug a furry or dress up as a giant rainbow but I would very much like them to not sexually assault women and actually solve crime rather than perpetrating it.

The anti woke stance is anti questioning and challenging establishment, anti change. When institutions stagnate they get full of filth.

Woke institutions seem to lead to outcomes that hurt women, children, ethnic minorities, take away human rights and so on because it is very easy for people who do eg sex crimes to paralyze those institutions with protected attributes.

When an organization is prejudiced, or woke, or contains both extremes, it is just worse for everyone in the middle - colleagues and public alike.

Which is how you get women being punched in the face at a feminist march in front of police officers who do nothing. Other worse crimes overlooked, too, it cannot have escaped anyone's notice.

Eg: Whether a police officer is letting someone be assaulted, raped, or whatever else because a) they are woke and won't touch the perpetrator or b) they are prejudiced or c) they won't trouble other police officers actually makes very little difference.

There is no place for extremism or corruption of any kind in the police, nobody else is to blame, they are.

woke for me has become pretty performative eg the police tweeting or highlighting certain causes but then being sexist, racist etc.

Actually that's one of the reason I don't like the woke / identity politics agenda. Which has been adopted enthusiastically by the police by the way.

To me it prioritises meaningless gestures and enforced conformity of thought whilst doing nothing to tackle actual sexism, racism and homophobia.

The Met spend half their time promoting woke causes.....not really worked has it? 🙄

Thry might be better promoting the decency and common sense agenda.😗

^Exactly

Define woke.

Do you mean the rainbow washing used to divert from toxic cultures?

One telling part of Louise Casey's report is that the firearms units get any "toy" they want - but budgets for difficult stuff like rape investigations have been cut.