to think that people who attack "woke" shouldn't be surprised when institutions like the Met Police are found to be institutionally sexist, racist, homophobic etc

[cakeorwine]

It reminds me of the scene in Casablanca when the police inspector is shocked at finding gambling at Ricks.

The right wing media attack "woke" all the time. There seems to be an issue when people speak up, try to do things differently, try to change a culture at a place.

And then they act shocked when it's found that the Met Police have a culture of misogyny, racism, homophobia etc.

Given all the attacks on people who try to change a culture, to try to get people to see other points of view, to try to speak up about diversity issues, it's not surprising that it doesn't seem to have been taken seriously and tolerated as trying to make changes would be seen as "woke" and the right wing media would turn on them.

Actually I think woke is the problem. The met are woke, by which I mean they pay lip service to equality and diversity, do the training, go to pride etc. But, their fundamental culture is still aggressive and intolerant. This for me is what woke actually is: deep hypocrisy. It’s not the same as genuine tolerance and fairness.

This. Institutionally misogynist, all the progression is nothing more than a veneer. It's not real. It's gone too far the other way without actually fixing the issues at their core.

We seem to live in a world where the extreme left seem to think they can't possibly be wrong, but they are just as quick to try force ideologies and behaviours on the rest of us, like a bunch of wannabe dictators. Nuance and debate are dirty words. It's depressing.

Yes. What on earth would they do with their time! Evil ribbons.

Ask a thousand people what woke means and you'll get a thousand different replies. A video went viral recently of an American writer on CNN promoting her 'anti-woke' book - she was asked what 'woke' actually meant since she was saying it so often. She stuttered, mumbled some words, then went silent. Finally she murmured 'this is going to go viral, isn't it?'

The person with strategic responsibility for the Met Police is the police and crime commissioner for London, that well known enemy of the woke...Sadiq Khan.

He was interviewed on the radio this morning. Part of his spiel was to bang on about how these problems have existed in the Met for many years, everyone has known it's the case, and they Met have done nothing to tackle them. The interviewer then asked him then why he hadn't intervened years back. In response Khan moved into waffle overdrive.

The irony of the extremists on both sides have lots in common 👀

"The anti woke stance is anti questioning and challenging establishment, anti change. When institutions stagnate they get full of filth."

Is that a past definition do you think? Do you think that it might have changed in this upside down world? Where tolerant now seems to mean the opposite and those who believe they are the most tolerant are the 'anti questioning', 'anti-challenging establishment'.

I also think that your inclusion of 'anti-change' there perhaps needs to be qualified. Because change for the sake of 'change' or for the sake of appearing diverse is not always a positive change.

I'm amazed he did that. He usually pretends that policing has nothing to do with him.

Anti woke to me means I'd rather see action and and change than labels and words

The report on the Met just makes it clear how much window dressing there is and how being "woke" is manipulated. It is not news that the Met is racist, misogynistic or homophobic to most Londoners.

However, it was news to me that they actually employed rapists, murders and sexual sadists. There is not enough training in the world or diversity work that can adjust that. These officers who support it should be sacked. They are a hazard to the general public and the senior management need to be held accountable for the officers. They recruit and promote in their own image so let's start looking at the people who allowed it to happen. Without this report, we'd still be in the "a few rotten apples".

Clearly the barrel is rotten.

Everyone would say they want that though. It doesn't mean anything.

I don’t think he can claim that anymore although agree he probably has tried.

Are you woke OP? I agree with peekaboo.

The police have supported lgbtq staff sharing articles about their day, whatever you call people who wear dog bondagey masks walking with them at pride. It’s not making one iota of change to the basic culture of misogyny.

i work for a fantastic company and along with them I support diversity. I don’t support the erasure of women or exposing children to overly sexual concepts and porn. You have missed the point here.

I can't bear the 'woke culture' debate. The right wing has taken a word and twisted it to mean what it wants and weaponised it against people.

Are we going to get the definitions then of 'woke' and 'anti-woke' from the OP?

Because I agree with many others on this thread that performative diversity acceptance is just that, performative. If women are being charged, or having to submit to questioning for putting a ribbon or a sticker up, or for saying that they are uncomfortable with males being in female single sex spaces, and facing a tidal wave of misogyny all the while other groups are celebrated and centred then we are getting no where.

And that doesn't even cover the issues that women have around reporting rape and sexual abuse. Because that is too much for a short post to cover.

So, OP. What do you call 'woke' and 'anti-woke'?

I think woke training makes it worse.

I don't like "woke" as a term because it is misused.

But I do think that performative liberalism has a lot to answer for. Putting up posters and cancelling and intimidating people for supposed "hate crimes" is actively unhelpful, particularly when otherwise underperforming institutions get involved. It's an attempt at rebadging "sure, some of us do terrible things and we let them get away with it, but we are the good guys. Just look at our lovely, beautiful IDEAS!"

Example of woke anti racism - the recent article doing the rounds on why drinking coffee is racist. I am against initiatives like this

example of normal anti racism - sacking officers who call black colleagues “monkeys” or leave bananas on their chairs. Examining why officers of colour are under represented in senior positions in one of the most diverse cities in the world and taking steps to remove those barriers.

hope that helps you understand the difference

Seems to me the 'woke agenda' has distracted everyone from actual concrete discrimination.

Searching for ever smaller minority groups to champion while ignoring discrimination against disabled, female and minority religious/ethnic groups who represent a significant proportion of the population is a waste of resources.

Woke DIE is a failure, its about making DIEities out of some groups of people.

Woke made relations between protected characterists bad.

Woke promoted Foucault and Kimberly Crenshaw type ideologies like Queer and intersectionality and it just pissed people off middle ground people amd made abusers worse.

Agree with @picklemewalnuts - policing by a woke sound bite but employing actual criminals and promoting them.

The senior management has failed. The promotion of these disgusting people tells you everything. That would not happen if it were a few rotten apples.

But with constant attacks on "woke", constant villification in the media of people who try to introduce changes, it should not surprise people that people feel they can get away with attitudes as it can be seen to be tolerated by some.

It's "the woke" that said no debate and send death threats to JK Rowling without a good reason. That's not introducing change. (if you do know a good reason to even be against her then please quote exactly what she said wrong, we're still waiting for an answer on that one).

In my opinion extreme left and right are both very dangerous people.

Oooh please answer this question?

Seems to me the 'woke agenda' has distracted everyone from actual concrete discrimination.

If your reaction to institutionalised boys club racism and misogyny is to blame boogeymen progressives then that says more about you than the boogeymen progressives.