to think that people who attack "woke" shouldn't be surprised when institutions like the Met Police are found to be institutionally sexist, racist, homophobic etc

[cakeorwine]

It reminds me of the scene in Casablanca when the police inspector is shocked at finding gambling at Ricks.

The right wing media attack "woke" all the time. There seems to be an issue when people speak up, try to do things differently, try to change a culture at a place.

And then they act shocked when it's found that the Met Police have a culture of misogyny, racism, homophobia etc.

Given all the attacks on people who try to change a culture, to try to get people to see other points of view, to try to speak up about diversity issues, it's not surprising that it doesn't seem to have been taken seriously and tolerated as trying to make changes would be seen as "woke" and the right wing media would turn on them.

Been listening to coverage of the MET report today, and cops or ex-cops are ringing in to trot out the ' few bad apples' line. That's not going to cut it anymore - institutionally sexist, homophobic, and racist is not a few bad apples. And serving police claiming it is - not going to change anything.

We don't trust you. No-one trusts you. And it's not just the MET either, this whole thing is making people question other forces.

'to think that people who attack "woke" shouldn't be surprised when institutions like the Met Police are found to be institutionally sexist, racist, homophobic etc'

Though actually, I'm not sure people who use the term 'woke' do actually believe they are any of those things.

YABU.

’Woke’ thinking is just another form of extremist thinking. It’s “We’re right and everyone else is wrong, and the opinions of those who aren’t like us don’t matter.”

Woke thinking is as bad as racism and misogyny, it’s just the other side of the same coin. It’s about othering people instead of talking to them, and most importantly it is about hate.

When you can listen calmly to someone who disagrees with you, and engage with their thoughts in a civilised manner, and allow for the possibility that you might not be 100% right and they might not be 100> wrong, then you become a person worth listening to. The woke screaming students who wear balaclavas to hound academics out of a job for ‘wrongthink’ are just the latest form of facism.

I think the concept of 'woke' is increasingly the very right wing dressed as liberal movements. People who attack 'woke' want actual progress, not pretend progress which allows homophobia and misogyny etc to flourish. People who think that 'woke culture' is progressive have not understood what is going on. People who really want 'awakening' tend not to consider themselves 'woke' because sadly the term has been commandeered by people with very old-fashioned anti-progressive values.

The Met like Woke when it suits them. I bet they'd bloody love mixed toilets and changing rooms.

There seem to be many with fethism issues and they cluster, so yes the golden shower crew in the report would love that.

Bollocks op. Woke people don't try and change work culture. Woke people don't engage with others who have different views in a pragmatic way. Woke folk don't see racism, misogyny, that other people are missing.
Woke people talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They make social media posts. They adopt fashionable ever changing causes. What they don't do is the hard stuff. They don't support learning disabled adults who are an uncool cause. They do bugger all about modern slavery.
No one thinks of wokeness as a good thing. Its a badge worn by self indulgent people who like a good moan but don't like engaging with plebs or getting their hands dirty. Hth

I just don't believe that our institutions could be particular racist either.

I think you would find that tyrannical “woke” is not dissimilar to far right or left - when you go too far down any ideology you end up at the wrong end of tyranny and they all resemble each other at that point .

It's more interesting to think about how "woke" works in the world rather than complaining about definitions. Here's an example of how it can manifest:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180315031511/https:/twitter.com/LucyLoveslife1/status/973852316787933184

I know how woke started, and I also know what it means to it’s adherents today. Very different things even without the right wing media spin.

I’m anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobic, and very left wing. I wouldn’t call myself woke though because I don’t buy into identity politics without class analysis. And I don’t think we should put males in women’s prisons.

Institutional sexism, homophobia and racism could be the result of their chanting, just a few bad apples, nothing to see here!

Get a fruit bowl, fill it with 10 healthy apples and then put a rotten one in.

Then leave it for a fortnight. The entire contents will be rotten.

If it's just a couple of rotten apples, what did they do about them? With real fresh fruit, you need to remove and bin the visibly rotten apples, then take out and quarantine all the apples they were touching for rot, before you can replace them back in the barrel.

It is the same with corrupted people!

I think you’re misunderstanding some of the attacks on woke- what many people hate about the movement (if you can call it that) is the huge levels of virtue signalling without action, shutting down anything challenging and lack of common sense/ reality check which is actually a massive part of the problem with the met. They’ve probably been churning out box ticking leaflets and speeches for years but all the time not actually doing anything to stamp out widespread racism, homophobia etc when it is right before their eyes. Let’s not forget that Stephen Lawrence was murdered 30 years ago.

A lot of people could do to read Freddie deBoer latest piece, especially those pretending it is magnified by the 'right wing media'

https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/of-course-you-know-what-woke-means

The only people I've come across who claim to be woke are flat earthers/ covid deniers / don't think they should pay bills as a 'free man'
I also don't think anyone is shocked at the met turning out to be misogynistic, homophobic and racist

A few bad apples looks a lot more like a few honourable exceptions.

The few bad apples thing is only possible to say because it is very rare to get a complete or bigger picture of what happens. But what it looks like is that really disgusting behaviour is widespread. It's tolerated at best and at worst, it's rewarded.

Think about that - a police force that rewards abusive, manipulative and viscous behaviour. That is what the report exposes, and then there have been "woke washing" to tick some boxes designed to be of no impact whatsoever to those affected.

If we had to have a definition I suppose it would be something like:

authoritarian-minded people who identify as being progressive and seek to compel language and thought in others and who feel entitled to go on the attack when people object to this authoritarian behaviour.

Do you spend your whole life in hoc to your naive internal beliefs as opposed to paying any consideration to actual reports written by people who have investigated these things?

And let me guess, you don’t believe racism exists in this country because you’ve not experienced it. Because you’re white, right?

👍

‘I just don't believe that our institutions could be particular racist either.’

you must be white.
I had a colleague inform me that there’s no way the police are homophobic. Or sexist or misogynistic.
As a gay woman I wholeheartedly disagree.
I’ve never experience racism - I’ve seen it against others though, and I’m also happy to take the word from my non-white friends that it’s rampant in the U.K.

The whole 'you're not supposed to mind about just a couple of bad apples, it's only a few, don't be mean to the whole group because of the behaviour of a few...'

I've got a box of chocolates here. Only three or four of them have been poisoned, and only one or two of the poisoned ones will kill you.

You'd crack on and have a few, wouldn't you?

This.

Some of the 'woke' stuff needs to end. Some more common decency and stopping of racism, homophobia and misogyny would be a start.

It is a joke. Every male dominated public institution has the same issues; predatory men enabled by passive leadership. Until that is recognised that the leadership of these organisations suffer or are accountable for the employment of racists, domestic abusers and other criminals, then it will not stop. It's not a big surprise is it that some men who enjoy power over others, especially those they consider inferior to them will join the police. They join because it gives them that kind of power. Children's homes have paedophiles in charge. The BBC employ child abusers and reward Jimmy Saville. Churches have priests who prey on their flock. It is exactly the same kind of passive leadership. And all of these institutions cannot acknowledge there is any risk to make behaviour - it's the most glaring point that we see over and over again. Some men join because they seek power over others.

Why else would you be so vile to your colleagues? Because you enjoy it. It's nothing to do with banter or education being needed. They join because there are bugger all standards and accountability in practice, and the public, if they see them at all, give them deference.

Absolutely this. Came on to say precisely this. Right wing extremism, hard left facism with its compelled speech and threats of violence….both the same thing in my book.

I can tell you where woke policing will get you. Not the problems of a racist/misogynist force which probably is different in origin even if they embrace woke virtue signalling.

In my country, the enlightened police forces will now give black suspects who have been arrested two phone calls from jail, because their lack of privilege may have made things harder for them. They need the help, right?.

A regular, white criminal who is otherwise guilty (or not) of the same thing only gets one.

The actual facts of the advantages or disadvantages those specific individuals have had in their lives - where the white guy could easily have had a similar or worse life - are irrelevant.

There's your woke enlightenment. No fricking wonder people took the term and began to use it for a kind of self-righteous blindness.