The death taboo in England.

[Fifi1010]

I did a training session on dying well and wow so many people are so uncomfortable with dying even mentioning it . I have a will and life insurance. I have informed my family of my current wishes and I have written this down. If I change my mind I will update it. I don't think of death a lot but I see it as inevitable and a transition.

It saddens me when people haven't done the planning so decisions are made in crisis when emotions are high and people might not get the end they would want. What could be done to ease the taboo of death?

I work with very elderly people and at a hospice, and my dh and dad have died in the last few years. I feel surrounded by death sometimes.

My mother's family is perhaps unusual in that we talk about death a LOT, my father's family hardly at all. We all felt we knew exactly what was right for his funeral though. And funerals really can matter. My dh took his own life and the funeral was the most healing event possible. I was a control freak about it and it was exactly the way I wanted it. Dh would have thought nobody would want to be there and nobody would miss him - if he'd written his wishes it would be to be tipped into a black hole. I'm glad he didn't write them down. As it was we had a packed hall, lots and lots of happy loving memories, his whole personality and not just his illness.

Likewise I went to a friend's funeral last year, he died from one of the most awful progressive diseases you can imagine and he had time to plan his own funeral down to the last tee. It was one of the most painful events I have ever been to and I'm afraid it was about half an hour too long. I have deliberately not put too many specifics in my letter to my executors - basically a couple of suggestions re music and readings I like, and disposal ideas, but I give them free rein.

Having just been through this, dads death was handled very compassionately by staff. When it became clear he was not going to survive, we had a very frank but kind discussion with a palliative care consultant who arranged medication to make him comfortable and withdrew other intervention like drips and injections, they even stopped monitoring blood pressure and temperature to allow him to rest quietly. By the end he was doped to the eyeballs and very comfortable. We had agreed to a DNR when he was initially admitted to hospital because of his age and other health issues.

My poor Mum has recently had to sort 3 lots of probate out over the past couple of years, and also had to take over finances of another existing relative who had to go into care with dementia at short notice. This spured my Dad on to get Power of Attorney sorted for both of them, and my Dad finally got round to writing his will.

Wanting to make sure that both me and my brother (as joint executors) understood the will, we held a "(proof)reading of the will" evening where we sat with my Parents, a bucket of KFC, and made sure we all understood the technicalities, reasons behind my Dad's decisions, possible issues if Mum died first, etc etc. A very humour filled, thought provoking evening. Dad changed a few things as a result of the conversation, some things he's still pondering and we all understand it. There were a few "well hang on, if Mum goes first that would mean...." conversations, which some families might find bizarre but my family is known for being remarkably open about these things.

For as long as I can remember, and I mean maybe 8 years old, we've always known to bury Dad in an banana box rather than an expensive coffin, and if we ever wake up one morning to find him dead in bed we are to somehow get him in the car and take him into town and throw his body under a bus as his life insurance would pay out more if he death was the result of an accident. If Dad goes first I'll need a week off work to console Mum, dry tears, offer support and comfort her. She will spend the rest of her life worrying unnecessarily about money and never spending anything of their hard earned money. Dad says she'll be sitting in a decrepid house with rain coming in and water running down the walls with thousands and thousands in the bank. If Mum goes first I'll need a day off work because I'll have to teach Dad how to use the washing machine. He's also said he'll want a new hoover, because he reckons it'll be easier to hoover up all the g-strings and nipple tassles that the strippers have left strewn round the living room. And I'll have to order him a new recycling bin from the council for all the pizza boxes.

There is humour still to be found in these circumstances. My poor boyfriend is horrified how we laugh about some things, but equally wishes his family could be the same because every time he tries to ask his parents if their wishes have been recorded, or things are sufficiently taken care of, they swiftly change the subject with disparaging tones of voices.

@Dacadactyl - my understanding of Medical Power of Attorney is that it has to be triggered when the person is no longer capable of making their own medical decisions - until that point, it is on file. So when the doctors say that the person can't make their own decisions, you get in touch with the Office of the Public Guardian, and they set the power of attorney going, so you can then make decisions for them.

So unless you had power of attorney already triggered, if your relative suddenly went down hill - eg. had a severe stroke - you would have to trigger the power of attorney before you could tell the medical profession not to resuscitate them.

However, an individual can state, ahead of time, that they do not want to be resuscitated - and it is my understanding that, once they have registered this, they keep the paperwork with them, and if they are taken ill, they take it with them and hand it to the hospital staff or paramedics.

Unfortunately the information doesn't always get passed on - my mum had a DNR order, but either it wasn't on her notes sufficiently prominently, and the hospital missed it, or it was at mum's home, and the carer who found her didn't know about it, so didn't give it to the paramedics, and my sister didn't realise she needed to let the hospital know, so when mum went into cardiac arrest, they did try to resuscitate her. They didn't succeed, and dsis and I are not going to make a fuss about it, because it was human error, and we understand how that can happen - but if they had managed to revive her, it would only have prolonged her suffering.

My dad's funeral was beautiful - it was a lovely way to end his life after a sad struggle with dementia. We had music, we had singing, we had chatting, reminisces, we had eulogies, we saw relatives and friends we hadn't seen for years. In fact, my only complaint was that he wasn't there to enjoy it - he'd have loved it. I am so glad we did it like that.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius Thank you.

My dad’s was the same @WestwardHo1. I was so pleased when my cousin said to me “Uncle Jim would have really liked this”.

That isn’t really what I was saying, though, @EmmaEmerald - I was addressing the specific side issue of using direct language versus euphemisms.

Death comes to us all, and it is always a difficult time, with emotions running high, and amidst all that, it can be very difficult to make all the decisions involved in planning a funeral and maybe clearing out a home. Speaking from experience, knowing what my mum wanted has made things that bit easier.

You said “Another excellent reason not to talk about death unless you have to” - but sadly we don’t always know that death is near - it can happen very suddenly. My dad died very suddenly - he was 72 but in pretty good health, all things considered, and whilst he had been under the weather with a nasty cold in the week or so before he died, he was never ill enough for mum to think she should make him see the GP. He literally collapsed one morning and died at home despite the neighbour’s best efforts at CPR.

So we had to cope with the trauma of his sudden death, and try to support mum who was devastated, and try to make all the arrangements.

When my lovely MIL was terminally ill with cancer, we knew the end was near, so we had the conversation with her about what she wanted for her funeral, and again, it did make things easier - I guess that was the sort of circumstance you were referring to as when you ’have’ to talk about death.

As I said earlier, my mum wrote us a letter with her thoughts on her funeral etc, and sent it to dsis and me - that is a way of avoiding the conversation, if it is too uncomfortable.

@MNDislimiting What a wonderful family you have by the sounds of it 💐 hugs to you

STDG - that's what I mean though. I can see why chatting with loved ones might be a good idea, but the whole idea of talking more about death is fraught with problems, as the language example shows.

I've just refrained from commenting on another thread about death. I began typing and realised what I was going to say might be offensive, so kept quiet.

The thing is that death is such a normal part of life. Everyone dies. This means every knows someone who dies. It should be talked about, because it's hard enough as it is without the taboo and silence. I talk to my children openly about death for this reason.