The death taboo in England.

[Fifi1010]

I did a training session on dying well and wow so many people are so uncomfortable with dying even mentioning it . I have a will and life insurance. I have informed my family of my current wishes and I have written this down. If I change my mind I will update it. I don't think of death a lot but I see it as inevitable and a transition.

It saddens me when people haven't done the planning so decisions are made in crisis when emotions are high and people might not get the end they would want. What could be done to ease the taboo of death?

Tobee "Personally I think it's a ridiculous euphemism but I don't want to even slightly hurt people who've recently had a relative die recently."

my dad "passed away" because it was sooooo sloooow and painful.

I had friends die in a terror attack, I used died for them because that's the right word.

also interesting..the OTT condolences come with reference to my father, but not to my friends, which was a much more awful thing. Watching parents bury their children...bloody hell.

anyway, that's actually a great example of why we don't talk about death! I wasn't intending to provide one but perhaps I have 🤷🏻‍♀️

That's a nice definition of passed away @EmmaEmerald

I've got a will and have put a note with it of the type of funeral I want, and the music I want. I did this after having arranged my mother's funeral. She didn't give instructions so we just picked what she would have liked.

Hopefully you wouldn't know but it is very distressing for those that love you to see you like that. But who knows. I remember when my dear mum was dying I put headphones on her (she had had a stroke and couldn't move in the last few weeks) and played the Blue Danube which was a favourite piece of music. Tears rolled out of her eyes and she gestured to take them off. She died later that night and I think she knew it and didn't want to remember what had gone. She didn't want to leave the party so to speak. 30 years on I can't listen to that piece of music without welling up.

When my daughter was 5 we had our dog pts. She asked lots of questions. Did it hurt? Could he still see? What would the vet do with him next. I explained he didn't hurt anymore, maybe he could see her from the sky but what we knew as our dog was no more. He was in a bag in a freezer with lots of other pets and would go in a bonfire with the other pets and what was left would blow across the fields and be free. ( sensible child not easy frightened and coped better with all the facts)
As it happened my dad died two years later. She remembered he was in a big fridge, would go in a bonfire.

She was very excited as the hearse pulled up shouting 'grandads here'. She proudly carried his ashes as we sent them up the firebox of a steam train and waved goodbye to him.
Obviously this isn't for everyone but for dd it helped her see death wasn't scary and just a process, if a sad one.

Just to elucidate I meant "nice" as in this definition

(especially of a difference) slight or subtle.
"there is a nice distinction between self-sacrifice and martyrdom"

I dunno- I hear it’s like permanently waking up from a big night thinking “ oh fuck. What did I do/say?”. Basically permanent hangxiety.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius I recognise your name from many iterations and offer my sympathies for your recent loss.

I'd like to ask you and others a question that I hope isn't upsetting. When you say your person left instructions did you know they had done that, and if so what was your experience.

I ask as my mother talks about this and we breezily say there's no need to talk about it, she's not going anywhere etc. She's 87, so you know, it's not like she has too many forevers.

No one wants to consider life without the people they love the most. As a single parent I've put provisions in place. The fact remains death is a certainty (more so given the cig I'm currently smoking) yet we shy away from conversations that may actually be a comfort of mind that are staring reality in the face.

I tend to agree with posters talking of a downturn in religion. I don't expect an afterlife, but a reflection of life lived and knowledge of our wishes should be talked about more in life not in our eulogy I think.

YANBU.
Death is normal.
Death will happen to all of us.
Death is not something to be afraid of.
We should all prepare for our own death, take the emotion out of it and discuss honestly and openly.

I'm a girl guide so am prepared. Although now I think about it I could write down more specific wishes.

I once asked my dad if he wanted burial or cremation and he replied rather dryly "surprise me."

As Cariad Lloyd puts it - it's a club. You only really get it once you're in the club.

Vitriol you mean your mum is trying to talk about it but you stop her?

Strictly I like your dad!

tobee don't worry, I knew what you meant.

I once asked my dad was it like being in the waiting room for death in his 70s and he was most annoyed. He said he felt like he was 17 and life was yet to begin. He died soon after.

I actually think it’s really important to let your mother say what she wants to, however much you don’t want to hear it. I remember my grandad telling me he’d quite like to die. It was hard to hear but most of his friends and his wife were dead, his health was failing quite rapidly, and he said “ I’d rather it was now while I’m not in any pain”. It did help us make decisions further down the road to not try to prolong his life.

@Hopskipnsigh I agree with you. Dead and died are, I believe not words to be shied away from. My own DS attended his GF's funeral, in fact contributed, as did my nieces when their mother died.

I look to Irish friends, where the death is acknowledged head on and the life lived celebrated, for guidance. Whilst religion plays a part the openness of the rituals is a comfort to the bereaved in way that my own slightly antiseptic experience has been.

I’ve been bereaved recently and used the word ‘die’ when telling people or writing it down, personally I don’t like the pass away euphemism. I would have liked it if those I was talking to used the same expression, but most used passed etc. I know you cannot police others’ language but it would have been mindful of the way I was phrasing it.

I actually think it’s really important to let your mother say what she wants to, however much you don’t want to hear it.

I agree. I knew what my mum wanted because we talked about it. There’s a note for our kids for both our funerals and we joke with them about us being dead, eg I’ve told them if there’s any religion involved in my funeral I’ll come back and haunt them.

I think our society is in an awkward place right now with Christianity and Christian traditions. My parents and everybody I know of their generation would assume a church funeral just goes without saying even for non church-goers.
Many much younger people are humanist / atheist and comfortable with that.

I am the in between generation. I don’t go to church and wouldn’t choose any mentions of god or heaven for myself. But if I were to die before my parents and they wanted a church funeral then I guess I’d rather they had whatever makes them feel better. I mean, I won’t care, I’ll be dead.

Not stop her (you couldn't gag the email if you tried, god bless her!) but I don't feel I'm alone when I say we push the conversation down the road. We shouldn't, but we do. My point being that we all hope so hard to avoid talk of the inevitable for selfish gain.

Thank you all for your kind wishes.

@Vitriolinsanity - mum wrote her letter and sent it to both of us in 2020 - some of it opus out of date, because of the special arrangements around funerals during Covid, but most of it still makes sense. If you didn’t want to see the letter ahead of time, perhaps your mum could write it and give it to you to be opened when needed.

Woman, not email fgs.

Although she does love an email at her advanced age. I do rue buying that bloody iPad daily.

I agree too. I think it’s a very lonely place for someone at the end of their life if they’re sssshhed from talking about it or told breezily they’ve got ages left. It’s okay to want to talk about death. It really is. We need to be more open about it. My Mum knew when she had a few days left and she said she was “sad to be leaving the party” - and I really think that’s how we should all see life and death.

I'm hoping it's brought you comfort @SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

If we learn nothing, perhaps it's true that our mothers know best.

I think we shut it out because it’s just so awful. Some people are lucky, and die dozing in front of the TV, or whatever, but for most of us it’s not a pretty sight. And in many cases it’s horrific. My first experience of death occurred when I was 19 and watched my beautiful, gentle grandmother die of a brain haemorrhage. It was horrifying and has completely poisoned my memories of her. My friend’s dad died of cancer when we were 24, and it was like something out of a horror movie. And it doesn’t end with death. It’s unbearable to imagine our loved one burning in an oven or buried in the cold, dark ground. We shut it out for a reason.

We don’t talk about death enough.

And we certainly don’t talk about death in relation to ageing enough. There seems to be an expectation that people should live excessively long lives, even when health is so poor. Quantity instead of quality.

I'm sorry to those who have had recent losses. Please talk to your family about your end of life and death wishes and encourage them to talk about theirs. Have Wills, POA, Advance Decisions in place. None of these will take away the hurt or make things better, but they will help dealing with the admin parts which are horrible at an extremely stressful time. Also make sure that you know where these documents are so you can have them to hand when things reach the end, especially a DNR or advance decision. I don't think that many of us know what to do after a death until we have experienced it. If the death is classed as unexpected, even if the person was very ill, the Police will be called and will examine the body and will not allow anyone in the room whilst they do this. This was one of the hardest parts for me as I did not want a male officer examining her, despite knowing that he was doing his job.