The death taboo in England.

[Fifi1010]

I did a training session on dying well and wow so many people are so uncomfortable with dying even mentioning it . I have a will and life insurance. I have informed my family of my current wishes and I have written this down. If I change my mind I will update it. I don't think of death a lot but I see it as inevitable and a transition.

It saddens me when people haven't done the planning so decisions are made in crisis when emotions are high and people might not get the end they would want. What could be done to ease the taboo of death?

I agree with you about this terrible euphemistic language, and so did my recently dead mother, so I am afraid she has died as far as I am concerned and I have said so. If the "passed aways" are allowed to use that because it somehow makes them feel better then good luck to them, but I won't be, and there is no possible way my Mum would have wanted her death to be Bowdlerised.

This thread has prompted me to prod dh on this topic regarding mil. He had to do an emergency trip this week as she was touch and go in hospital.
The power struggles between dh and mil’s partner are worrying already in life, so I’m dreading to think what they will be like in death.
I wish mil would just communicate what she wants instead of letting them battle it out.
I hope she lives for years to come but it could also be months and there are so many unanswered questions.

The thing about the euphemistic language is that I suspect it is a bit of a marmite issue - some people, like @Neededanewuserhandle really hate it, and for others, they are gentler terms at a difficult time.

I have used the word ‘died’ when telling people about mum’s death, but have also used ‘passed’ and ‘passed on’ - we are talking about it so much at the moment, because it happened so recently, and I don’t want to keep on saying ‘died’, ‘death’ etc - and people have used a variety of words when they’ve been talking to me.

My worry is - unless I know ahead of time that a person hates the euphemisms or the direct words, there is always a risk of causing more hurt at an already difficult time. It’s a minefield.

When my dad knew his condition was terminal, we took great comfort from the fact he interviewed the local vicar and the local baptist minister , and opted for the latter. It was a lovely service, informed by the minister having met my dad beforehand, even though my dad was not a church or chapel goer.
He had, what I suppose one could call a simple, clear faith informed by his occupation and an innate understanding of the lifecycle.

And I also hate euphemistic language. Although reading this thread has made me realise that for people of faith ‘passing on’ does have a different interpretation.

It's all this #bekind nonsensical thinking that causes more pain than it assuages.
Take the lead from the bereaved. Personal beliefs are entirely irrelevant.

@Fifi1010 its interesting, I see it the other way round. Funerals, wakes, coffins etc aren’t important to the person who has died since they are dead. I feel like they are there for those left behind to say goodbye in the way that feels best to them at the time, therefore they should be able to decide on what they want.

See I found "people of faith" putting their religious spin on the death of my loved ones extremely offensive when both my grandparents and my mother died. This idea that they died "for a reason", "to go to a better place", like I ought somehow to be grateful for their deaths because they were with god now, or because there was some kind of devine purpose behind it, gave me the absolute rage. How dare you suggest that it's actually all fine and dandy and I shouldn't really be so upset that I've lost my mum because she is in your [to me] made up "heaven" now which apparently is just great for her. In my grief it was probably one of the worst thing people could say to me, as not a person of faith.

I’m suffering from a second time with a different cancer and I’ve told my DH and adult children what I would like as it’s better to be realistic.DH and I both got funeral plans sorted and out wills.Twice in the past we’ve had to lend relatives our savings in order to afford a funeral for their other half as no planning was done.When MIL passed away it was so much easier not having to worry about finding a few thousand for the burial service etc.We all die, some of us earlier than others so better to be prepared.

I hope you get well soon @Mollymalone123 💐

@ÉireannachÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ thank you that’s kind.unfortunately I think it’s not so good this time around but who knows? X

Yes but any religious person would be wise not to use phrases like "divine purpose" etc unless they knew with absolute certainty how their comments would be received. And even then, given the nature of grief, it would be wise to steer clear of this sort of talk in the aftermath because death can shake a person's faith.

In any event, thats not what the poster was saying. As i understand it, she meant that she now sees why people sometimes use the phrase "passing on" when they are religious, given that they believe the person is going elsewhere. But plenty of non religious people use the phrase "passed away" because it sounds less blunt than "died" or "dead".

I agree @Mollymalone123 I hope you don’t face our inevitable too soon.

Yes I know why people use it. I just don't that it's religious contet makes it any better. I meant general "you", not pp.

And while I'd agree they'd be wise not to people of faith to mention divine purpose, they say that sort of thing all the time "she's in a better place now", "she'll find peace with god", etc about dying. I know they are intending to offer comfort, but at least to me it has exactly the opposite impact and I was really cross they were using their religious agenda to somehow minimise the grief I was feeling. Oh yeah, I am real grateful I have lost my mum to a god I don't believe in, and a heaven I don't think exists, chin up! 🙄

😔is it not Molly? I am sending you a big hug if you want it.

I will keep you in my prayers. I hope you don't mind.
🙏May your pain cease,
Your strength increase,
And your fears be released!

Love to you @Mollymalone123

@Sunsetintheeast and @ÉireannachÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ
thank you both xx

We are currently dealing with a death in the immediate family. When I am informing people I am not telling them that my dad has "passed" or "gone to heaven" or any of the other euphemisms. He has died and that is the long and short of it. Yes it's ugly and yes it's difficult but really, when you're the person who is bereaved and grieving, using nicey-nicey language does nothing to make things any better. So just don't.

Also I am so, so glad that my dad was organised and both he and my mum have taken time to think about what they wanted and organised it. They both have a funeral plan - named an undertaker, written down what they wanted for a service, even down to the music they want and the charity they wish to ask for donations for. This is taking such an enormous load off me and my siblings as we are not second guessing "what dad would've wanted" because it's all there in black and white.

You are right @Dacadactyl that’s what I meant, for some people of faith the thought of ‘passing on’ may be a comfort.
For me, however, when my DH died suddenly last year I very clearly told everyone (and still do) that he is dead.
And as a person of no faith, I sort of believe in physics in that he’s here in the same way that everything from the Big Bang onwards is still here.
Having said that my understanding of physics is very sketchy!

STDG "My worry is - unless I know ahead of time that a person hates the euphemisms or the direct words, there is always a risk of causing more hurt at an already difficult time. It’s a minefield."

Another excellent reason not to talk about death unless you have to.

I explained upthread my reason for saying dad "Passed away". It's amazing to me that anyone could find that offensive. I tend to take my lead from whoever has the loss but honestly, the minefield is very off putting.

I'm not actually talking about funerals really. I don't have any particular wishes for a funeral as I won't be here. I'm talking if I lost capacity to make decisions about my care and life sustaining treatment. If I had a life changing accident for instance. I know I probably wouldn't want to live if I had a poor quality of life and I was distressed. I would rather be let go, families often want to hold on even if life for the person is crap.

I think some things are worse than death. I have done advanced care planning as my work has made me more aware that people have accidents/ life changing illnesses every day.

I have a slightly different perspective on dying. I was diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease nearly five years ago. I’ve had all this time, watching my body slowly declining, to think about what the end will look like.

At this point I have lost the use of my legs, my arms are just barely able to move, and I am starting to have trouble breathing. I am completely dependent on my husband and caregivers to feed me, bathe me, dress me, and put me on the toilet. I can do absolutely nothing for myself.

Fortunately, I live in Canada. Because of my diagnosis, I can have a medically assisted death so I’m not forced to live with no quality of life until I finally die of something. I get a choice!

There have been many conversations with family so they know how I feel. They all understand that this is my decision to make and are mostly supportive. Even the grandchildren are aware that grandma is poorly and will die. And I’m very thankful that we’ve all been able speak openly about the subject.

I've specified a few things...

One is the song to be played as the curtains close around my coffin for the cremation....

It's Nelly, Hot in Here

"It's getting hot in here, so take off all my clothes...I am getting so hot, I wanna take my clothes off..."

Genuinely this is what I want...And it does somewhat fit with my personality in life

I have told my husband that I'd rather not be kept alive by machines if I am "not here" mentally. However, I can tell he is uncomfortable thinking about it and wonder whether he'd actually be able to say "that's it, let her go now" to medical professionals.

I also think doctors and nurses are keen to "fix" things and maybe don't have the right words/training to advise families in these situations. Of course, some people just want their relative alive at all costs, but I am not sure family always understand what that will actually look like.

When my nan died, it was a very slow decline over 5 years. When she first had a stroke, she was mid-80s and had been very fit and healthy up to that point. But I do wonder why they didn't let her go at that point...how much longer was she realistically going to have?! Maybe she needed a DNAR in place at that point before they could legally not try, I'm not sure of the ins and outs of it tbh. But seeing her decline was unpleasant and she'd have been better off gone in that instant from the stroke than declining over time.

Does anyone know if that is allowed, or would she have needed a DNAR before they're not allowed to try? Would family have a say if they had medical power of attorney?

@Dacadactyl that’s what I had said in my post, I work in nursing and know we are far too good at keeping people alive in poor health now, a victim of its own success.

yes proper conversations are often not had, families don’t know what to expect or that realistically they wouldn’t get much longer even with treatment and even if they do get a little bit more time they’ll likely be unwell the entire time. Going back to those dying at home families often don’t understand the dying process e.g. not eating anymore, losing interest in things they’d usually take interest in, bowels not moving etc and demand we do something about it, it is then left to us as community nurses to explain all of this which it shouldn’t be

IMO we are obsessed with keeping people alive at any cost, like quality of life doesn’t matter just keep them alive: I have see poor souls in pain, in bed unable to move and just out of it, having tablets poured down their throat because we have to keep them here. I think it’s sad and there is no dignity in forcing people to live when they no longer want to be here. It’s tragic.
My father in law is very weak, very frail and can’t do anything now - yet there is still talk about a bladder operation to shave down the Timor even though he will be in so much pain after and have the recovery of it all. He doesn’t want it, but no one will listen .