The death taboo in England.

[Fifi1010]

I did a training session on dying well and wow so many people are so uncomfortable with dying even mentioning it . I have a will and life insurance. I have informed my family of my current wishes and I have written this down. If I change my mind I will update it. I don't think of death a lot but I see it as inevitable and a transition.

It saddens me when people haven't done the planning so decisions are made in crisis when emotions are high and people might not get the end they would want. What could be done to ease the taboo of death?

My Dad died from cancer in January, and his last few months were horrific ones. I read so many books/info online on dying well, a good death, palliative care and yet the reality was so very different. Thankfully we had built a strong relationship with the palliative care consultant and he was a lifeline in Dad's last days, taking on the nursing home for us and making sure Dad was medicated properly. I don't think I've ever felt so scared or utterly out of control and it didn't help that Dad wouldn't talk about death/what happens after so we're now floundering trying to work out what he wanted.

I've already had this conversation with our DC and have agreed to write it all down to make the process as simple for them as we can make it.

It's important to have thought about it and set out any wishes you might have. When my DM died, we didn't have much idea about what she would have liked at her funeral and we had to guess. With my DDad a year later, he went downhill very quickly after a cancer diagnosis and we had the time to ask him if there was anything he wanted at his funeral. Turned out there was quite a lot he wanted us to do. It was so much nicer (and easier) knowing his wishes and just filling in gaps. They'd both left wills so that side of it was quite easy apart from a difficult brother who helped himself to some jewellery meant for my daughters and won't give it back but heyho I do think it's become a taboo, I've tried to raise my daughters to accept it as an inevitable part of life.

My mums husband who is in his early 70s was telling me recently that when his nan died, she was kept at home for 2 weeks tucked up in bed. When he got home from school he was sent up up to give her a kiss every day! Sounds like more than a lifetime ago, change wise.

Yes I agree. It's not even talking in depth and planning we have problems, even describing someone as dead seems to trigger people. A topic recently came up in conversation and I mentioned a relative of mine who enjoyed same hobby. I was asked which club he attended and I said he doesn't, he's dead.
That seemed to cause an overacting of lm so sorry, blah blah....then later I overheard someone referring to me and saying "and then she said, He's dead! DEAD I kid you not, DEAD, bold as brass"....well guess what? He's dead, not passed on, I didn't lose him, he isn't late....he's dead!

It's not just death itself that appears to be unmentionable. I suggested the poem that starts with the words "why do you stand by my grave and weep", the officiate said many people don't like to hear the word "grave" in a funeral service. My sister agreed, so I caved in, I couldn't handle the potential arguement.

it seems so silly to me, where did folk think Mums body was going? To a party?

My daughter and I talk ( not every day, you understand, just when the subject arises) and she is well aware of my wishes. We even have a family joke that if the time comes where we feel the kindest thing is to help me go, she's not to use the expensive cushions to smother me.

I know what you mean OP.

My grandmother was diagnosed with terminal cancer a few months after I finished university; because of the timing of it, my mum and I shared the nursing of her and we were both there when she died. It sounds strange to say, but it is actually a huge privilege to be there with someone through death. It really made me think hard.

I'm half a lifetime older now, but DP and I have discussed what we would want, and we talk about good deaths. I also (sadly) have too many friends who have died too young, or whose partners have died too young, and I am absolutely convinced we do damage to ourselves by not having proper rituals for mourning and acknowledging death.

I’m not scared of death, but I am scared of getting old and having poor health but being kept alive for as long as possible, where you would put an animal down if it was in the same position. This default assumption that every human wants/needs/has to live as long as possible no matter what the quality of life actually horrifies me.

I agree.

I think it starts from childhood. People try to avoid children from experiencing bereavement by saying pets have gone to live on a farm or live in the sky.

Child bereavement counsellors talk with the child more matter of factly (age appropriate) and speak the words “dead” “died” etc.
It is about speaking truth without being graphic and it is counselling or providing the best support and allowing them to feel the emotion.
They are very resilient.
Avoiding death discussions only lead to it being more uncomfortable later on when they can no longer avoid experiencing it. Death is part of life.
It is ok to feel sad and work through that.
Death doesn’t create trauma, the dying process can be traumatic and therefore cause trauma.

Funerals are also part of the process and many prevent children attending.

All of this taboo and avoidance leads to death being a taboo and avoidance.

That’s hilarious, in a deeply weird way.

So sorry 💐

I find the whole idea of death really fucking scary tbh. Since dh's dad died last year at home and I got there to help and had to deal with the paramedics and tell mil he'd gone and call dh and sil and take dh up to the bedroom to see his dad. Him lying there was just fucking awful. And that was a sudden death at home. He wouldn't really have known anything about it. So a pretty good way to go. Death is really really scary.

I've been pondering a while about starting a thread on whether death is the last taboo in our society.

I feel like we're getting far more squeamish about death and the phrase "passed away" is used much more frequently than I can ever remember. I know someone who works in bbc news who said that the policy is to say "died" once and then "passed away" after that. Personally I think it's a ridiculous euphemism but I don't want to even slightly hurt people who've recently had a relative die recently.

I also know plenty of people who are superstitious about death and think that eg writing a will is somehow tempting fate. Death is often so random. I'm an atheist and to me it's not surprising that human beings have developed religious beliefs and structures.

A thing that’s really changed is the reluctance to say die or death and replace it with the mealy mouthed pass or pass away.

One of my friends was really taken aback when I said I had no fear of dying and the preceding weeks or months frightened me far more.

In Victorian England, discussing death was socially acceptable and sex was taboo. Now, it's more or less reversed.

I wonder if as people are living longer a lot of people haven’t personally experienced death, and perhaps that makes it more taboo. I notice I’m quite unusual in my circles losing all my relatives before 40. Most people still have their parents, some even have grandparents alive. A few generations back death was more commonplace; well I mean it’s always happened (!) but experienced more by more people.

Judge I can relate to the bit about OTT expressions of condolence. I do say "late" because it seems to avoid errors.

I used to tell my sister to put "That's All Folks!" from the cartoons on the final slide at my funeral. She said that was highly inappropriate and would upset people.

I was relieved my dad didn't leave funeral instructions, it meant I did as I chose mostly, my sister and mum didn't want to tackle it.

I do understand why people might not want to discuss it, myriad of reasons really. But I do think it's important to sort power of attorney, DNR if you want one etc.

We come from nothing we go to nothing so in the end what have we lost nothing. I hope I go like my parents from pretty good health in their mid 70s to dying within days as hard as that was 30 years ago to take it's probably the best way to die. Hanging on forever in a body that's decaying around you is just too much to take.

I don't know if I'm scared of death or the illnesses that lead to it. I'm scared of my parents death which I think about quite a lot as they are late 80s.

The only dead body I've seen was my newborn baby daughter (my middle child) who was stillborn. I was obviously extremely distressed about the whole experience but ultimately was able to think "how can I be scared of my own baby?"

Necrophilia is obviously a grey area then ... 😁(attempt at graveyard humour alert).

Hanging on forever in a body that's decaying around you is just too much to take.

I could deal with that. Hanging around forever with dementia is what really scares me.

I love that - that’s all folks!

My mum always said she wanted “I told you I was ill” on her grave stone 😆😳

😁

😂

I suppose we can control so much nowadays and consider ourselves discerning consumers. Very difficult to cope with being so out of control with life's ultimate event.