So upset. DP called DD this

[peachesandcreamz]

Hello,

For a bit of context, I’m currently going through a miscarriage and I’ve been feeling absolutely shit and tired/weepy all day. DD (8) wanted to bake which I said I’d do but I felt so poorly I couldn’t face it.

DD had the biggest meltdown, started screaming at the top of her lungs, knocked the dining chair over, ragged my phone out of my hand (I was calling her dad to get some support).

DP is obviously trying to support me and hated seeing DD screech at me and talk to me like shit. He lost his patience with her and called her a “spoilt little brat” 😢. This then made things a hell of a lot worse, and DD was even more hysterical. I tried getting her to go to her room which she point blank refused and things just escalated from there, which riled DP even more. I just cried and felt despair.

Obviously DP isn’t DD’s dad. We don’t live together and I said I think it’s best if he goes home for the night.

I’m annoyed with DD for reacting so badly but at the same time, she has no idea what I’m going through. It wasn’t DP’s place to lose his shit with her, was it?

I’m so sorry you’re having a miscarriage - it’s hard to be an A1 parent at the best of times but much less when you’re feeling so rotten.

Once you’re feeling better I would really consider how your DD feels about DP, how their relationship is generally, whether she feels really loved and valued by him and how supportive he is about your parenting style etc. If you were having a baby together would he suddenly be moving? A new step dad and sibling is a lot for an 8 year old to cope with…

From what you’ve said I infer perhaps the relationship is moving faster than your DD is able to process, or she has some fears around it. Was it just the two of you (you and DD) for quite a while? Has he been around a long time?

She may not know exactly what’s happening with you, but it’s possible she feels shut out as she is aware that something’s up and he knows but she doesn’t. This might make her feel excluded. She may feel he is to blame for you feeling low and unwell. Maybe she just wants her mum.

I agree having a tantrum because you are unwell is not ideal from an 8yo, and perhaps there is indeed something else (medical) going on. But if they are very infrequent it could just be there’s a lot of big feelings that aren’t being addressed or she doesn’t feel able to express.

How you and her dad split/when/his other relationships/how long you’ve been with DP/whether moving in or new siblings have been discussed etc etc is all relevant to her behaviour in genera.

Maybe when you’re feeling up to it try and make sure you get a bit of regular time just the two of you, and be curious about her feelings/fears etc. I doubt the meltdown and the miscarriage are unrelated, even if it seems as if they must be iyswim.

good luck! X

Hope you're ok OP. I wouldn't put up with an 8yr old acting like a toddler.

I don't think you should have asked your partner to go home, he didn't do anything wrong.

you should have dealt with her firmly when she first kicked off.

Probably easier said than done when experiencing something upsetting like a miscarriage though, right?

I agree.

I’m sorry for your loss, but I think your daughter behaved appallingly. This would be fairly normal for a 4 year old, but at 8 it is well outside the boundaries of normal behaviour.
I’m sure you didn’t handle things as well as you could, which is wholly understandable in the circumstances, but he your DP has also suffered a loss and, I would imagine, was very upset to see the woman he loves being treated like crap.
Cut him some slack, and yourself. And set some boundaries for your child.

There are worse things to call a spoiled brat than a spoiled brat 🤷🏽‍♀️ accept his support when your child is being a brat.

She's 8 not 8 months.

Ridiculous behaviour. I'd have called my child worse acting like this, regardless of the circumstances tbh.

If you are planning/were planning/were about to have a child together, you have to let your partner be a parent even if your ideas about parenting are somewhat different.

He'd become the father of your present daughter's sibling (or half-sibling) if you want to split hairs.

I don't think it'll really help a difficult situation if you pick a fight with your partner and send him home prematurely

You need to support one another and also to find an effective way to manage your daughter's behaviour together.

Your ex is responsible for your daughter's behaviour when she's seeing him - and on a general level it's obviously good to share information about she's doing. But ringing him every time you're not coping well seems less than ideal.

I hope you feel better soon.

I don't know, his partner is miscarrying and he sees an 8 year old getting physical with her (snatching the phone out of her hand) after knocking chairs over. I think it would be awful if he didn't step in to protect his partner.

It is awful that it happened but I don't think the most awful thing was an 8 year old being told she's a spoil brat although it would be better to say she's behaving like a spoilt brat because that sounds 100% accurate.

It is clear that your foolish behavior is the reason for your D’s appalling, spoiled brat, classless tantrums. You’re like that woman in the quote, a foolish woman tears down her house with both hands.

She’s going through a miscarriage FFS!
She’s allowed to not be a perfect parent right now.

Children aren’t robots.
They will be emotional and will have outbursts just like adults do sometimes.

I hope for your sake you have stopped reading the thread OP as some of these posts are absolutely awful and you shouldn’t need to read such crap about yourself or your child when you’re already going through so much.

Are you sure you aren’t angry because actually he’s right and she is a brat? How old is she?

How long have you been together? I think this is a key factor here.

I’m assuming DD doesn’t know you are going through a miscarriage? Children are very intuitive and she will know something is up, particularly if it is just the two of you living together.

My two pence is that he shouldn’t have said that to your DD. It was inappropriate and I think deep down you know that.

It's harder on him because while he might feel love for DSD he doesn't have that fierce protective love you do, and he sees someone misbehaving and hurting the person he loves, you. He doesn't have any say in her behaviour, so yes getting frustrated and calling her a brat isn't great but it isn't losing it either. Was there anything more to his behaviour, because one snapped comment isn't losing it. He might also be struggling with the loss, even if he didn't want a baby right now it could be bringing up all sorts of feelings in him. I'm sorry for your loss.

As for Autism, I wouldn't jump to that because of her behaviour. Does anything else make you think she is Autistic? She may simply need some stronger boundaries and some help to deal with her emotions better and express herself in an age appropriate way. Which can all wait until everything is a little less raw.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

My concern wouldn't be over what he said, nor that your dd acted out in the moment - my concern is how she acted afterwards.

Yes, children experience high emotions, and may sometimes "snap". That's one thing.

The fact that she knocked over a chair and wasn't concerned/didn't shock herself enough to stop there suggests a lack of boundaries.

Her then smacking your phone out of your hand suggests a lack of boundaries and respect.

Both of these are violent acts which is a concern that needs addressing very very firmly, but again, sometimes children lose their temper and they are learning so this is a learning event.

The big concern for me is that she then refused to go to her room. If my dd lost her temper at 8, she may have slammed a door or thrown something, but she would have been so shocked by her own behaviour she'd have taken herself to her room. Or needed telling once.

The fact that she wasn't shocked by her behaviour, and didn't follow your instruction, is most concerning here. It indicates a lack of boundaries and respect for you that needs looking at.

The fact that you called her dad to come manage her behaviour shows you know you don't have control.

Rather than blaming your dp for calling out what was appalling behaviour from an 8 year old, and trying to find SEN reasons, look at boundaries and behaviour. Before things escalate further and it's not a chair or a phone.

I hope you are still reading, OP, because most of the posts that encourage you to take a more reflective attitude towards how your child is probably feeling right now are later in the thread, whereas the first few pages were wall-to-wall 'give the brat a kicking'.

Even if people can't see a child in a nuanced enough way to understand that she's surely reacting to a seething atmosphere of unspoken grief and heaviness, alongside her probable feelings about her mother's new partner and his potential to cause great changes in her life, it must be possible to see that, while neither the child nor the adult (the partner) have responded well here, the child is a child, and the adult has no such excuse. Frankly, I wouldn't want a man who felt (as some posters have suggested) that he needs to step in all heavy-handed to protect me against my own child anywhere near me.

I was 7 coming up to 8 when my parents lost my newborn baby sibling. It was a very strange and unsettling time and difficult for them to deal with kids aged 7, 5 and 2 in the midst of their grief. I literally had never seen my father cry before. My mother was obviously crying as was my nana who lived with us.

We eldest two, while we didn't have the maturity to really comprehend the enormity of what they were going through, and not having seen the baby, knew instinctively that we needed to be 'good' because our family was upset and we didn't want to add to it. I recall it quite clearly, and I will never forget the sight of the little white coffin, although sadly we'd never had the chance to meet its occupant.

Similarly my own kids who were coincidentally 2-7 when I lost my parents, were also on their best behaviour because they knew we were 'upset'.

Maybe other kids do kick off - those are just my personal experience. I didn't tell my children when I had miscarriages either until much later when they were older. I don't think they actually twigged but they were very young.

She was very naughty. She didn't like being called out on it. Your DP was correct. Her behaviour was awful.

Sorry to hear about your miscarriage. It's such a dreadful thing to go through. Don't be too hard on yourself. Neither you nor your DP have done anything wrong.

Ouch people on here are harsh. It sounds like DD had been really looking forward to this activity and was feeling really hurt. She can see something is up with her mum and we don’t know her relationship with DP. Give this poor little kid a break!

Have a word with your DP and get him to apologise to her but also sit down with her and kindly explain why her behaviour was wrong.

Im so sorry about your miscarriage.

She WAS a spoiled brat.
Appalling behaviour.
I don’t blame him in this instance.

I’m really surprised at the number of mumsnetters who have such a lack of empathy for an eight year old.

I feel a bit sorry for him really, I’m not at all condoning him saying it so she could hear it but I imagine he’s grieving too and the last thing either of you needed was an 8yo acting utterly bonkers like that. I mean knocking over chairs and dragging your phone out of your hand? That is just unacceptable aggressive behaviour, my children who do have SEN would have a serious consequence for that. But to be blunt they wouldn’t act like that anyway.

Spoilt little brat isn’t nice but in this instance it does unfortunately sound quite factual.

You need to put on a united front and let him parent her if you are unable to do so in the moment, I don’t think I would’ve made him leave in all honesty. Having him stay and talking it out would’ve been a better option.

It is clear that your foolish behavior is the reason for your D’s appalling, spoiled brat, classless tantrums. You’re like that woman in the quote, a foolish woman tears down her house with both hands.

Yeah, this is just fucking nasty.

There’s nothing wrong with her though? She just didn’t get to do what she wanted? That’s spoilt brat behaviour

She's 8, not 18. And she's presumably had her parents split (a trauma) and then new man hanging around, and while it's not even enough of a relationship to have new man moved in, new man has impregnated her mum, and now mum is ill. Of course she's struggling to cope. Of course she's being childish, she's 8! Eight! Eight is still small, irrational, self absorbed. Especially when she doesn't understand what's going on. Then this new man insults her. Any traumatised eight year old will have meltdowns. She needs understanding, not insults from your latest boyfriend.

How long have you been with "DP"? He's not a partner, he's a live out boyfriend. And no, he shouldn't be parenting your child. It sounds like he's made no commitment to you so far. "Unplanned" pregnancy? Well, now you've had a scare, you can stop that happening again.

Did your daughter know about the pregnancy? Even if no, she'll know something's up.

I'm on her side- the small child. The small child who needs her adults to adult, and not insult her when she's being a confused child. I think you're right to be on her side, OP, you actually sounds o like a good mum to her. I think there are red flags about your relationship though.

FWIW I've had six miscarriages. Three of them happened when my older two were around 6-8. They were told what was going on (may not be appropriate in the OP's case obviously because of the aspect of the pregnancy being with a new partner) and while I don't remember them being particularly unsettled by it, I would not have been surprised in the slightest had they let any complicated emotions around it out in an unusual manner.