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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Dispute with builder escalated to assault

268 replies

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 20:45

I had a bizarre violent altercation today with a builder, and I don't know what to think or do about it anymore. I think I am still in shock and would appreciate some objective advice.

The long version: A couple of weeks ago I was looking for someone to clear a part of our garden. An old shed, overgrown area, old rotten swing set and small patio (not cement, like klinker stones). I could not find anyone and posted on one of these sites where you tell them about the job and then tradespeople get in contact to make quotes. This young guy (called Ollie) got in touch almost immediately. He has a company and everything. He came around with a coworker and they seemed ok. He said he could clear my garden in a day with a small digger and would send me a quote. Since it was a bit of an unknown quanitity in terms of labor, he quoted 45/hr per man and for the digger and diesel. Since he said it would take 1 day, I thought ok, that would be fast and expensive (around 1,600). But alright.

Three of them showed up on a the day (last Thursday) around 10:30am and started working. No digger in site. They disappeared at lunchtime for 3 hours. Came back and said 'we had to go do something else'. Worked a bit again, digger arrived at 3pm and they left again for 2 hours with a full trailer. Came back at did some more until 7pm (ug). But it wasn't done. And when they left the house, the passageway through the garage/house was absolutely filthy (we don't have side or rear access to our garden). Also unbeknowst to us at the time, diesel had been spilt all over the garage floor. We didn't smell it at first but then I woke up in the night gagging due to the fumes. They did clear most of the back but not everything and said they would come back next day.

On Friday two of them showed up at 10:30 and it was obvious to me by then that they were just stretching out the time as much as possible to charge me. I still thought 'ok it will be more but fine'. It was infuriating to watch though. They'd work for like 45 minutes, disappear for 2 hours, come back, disappear etc. They said the traffic to the tip was terrible. By 6pm I was fed up and wanted them out of my house. Ollie showed up at 4pm and helped them finish up. Around 7pm I actually had to kick them out of my house. They were standing in the garage smoking. Again, the house was an absolute TIP in the area near the garden. They moved furniture around, mud everywhere. It took us 2 days to fully clean up.

Any guesses as the the invoice they sent me? If you were thinking 2K or 3K or 4K you'd be wrong. 5K.

I nearly had a heart attack. They added charges that had never been mentioned to me. 800 for mileage to the tip. 800 for waste disposal. And claimed 52 hours of labor. My husband and I sat down and worked out what we thought was fair and reasonable. We accomodated the charges that were not in the offer. It came to about 3500.

We wrote a letter(email) explaining our dispute, and asked them to provide futher evidence of their work. Such as receipts from the waste site and so on. The address of the waste site (for mileage) etc. Ollie started calling me nonstop. He sent harrassing texts. His brother got involved. My husband called them and asked them to reply to the email, and we'd go from there.

To be fair they did. But their reply was nonsensical and difficult to follow and while some receipts were valid, others were dated from early March and clearly not from our house. We believe now that the reason they were gone so long was that they were picking up rubbish from other sites or even their own rubbish, adding it to our trailers, and trying to charge us. From the moment they sent their reply, they started harrassing me. I received approximately 20 phone calls last night between midnight and 3am. Texts saying if I don't pay, we're going to stick the bailiffs on you and charge interest. Etc. Also just general demands to respond.

We did respond, adding a bit more to accomodate the receipts, and sent 4000 today. We disputed the rest in a registered letter.

So he got 4000 quid 5 days after his invoice was sent. Today he the left me a voice mail saying he was going to 'dump my garden garbage on my drive unless i paid the rest of my bill'

And then he did. He showed up with his van and trailer and his mate. He didn't get on to my drive, because I moved the car to the end, but started dumping it out of the trailer on the side walk. I had literally just come home when he turned up and started filming him doing so (after calling the police) and then he assaulted me.

He shoved me and tried to punch me. Luckily it's on video.

I wasn't really hurt but unfortunately the police didn't show up until after. Of course what came then was a lot of shouting back and forth, as the police tried to descalate the situation. At first they were like, 'it's a civil matter'. But then I showed one copper the video and he changed his mind. Because he dumped a huge amount of garden sht on the pavement, the city will have to clean it up. He will fined for cleaning it up. He will receive a fine for fly tipping etc. They open a file for the assult. I should add, we were right about our theory. Not only was he lying about taking our garbage to the tip (otherwise why would he still have it??), he left stuff on the sidewalk that does not even belong to us. Including 8 huge tyres.

Now I am here typing this because my husband and I disagree about what to do (not angrily, just under discussion). I want to go to lawyer. I really don't know if I can do anything. I want to file a counter claim for a refund as he lied about going to the tip (he even said 'I have 9 more loads to dump on you' And I want to do anything I can to get this guy shut down and out of business. I want to leave the most devastingly worded google review so that no one ever hires him again. I actually believe not to do so is like, immoral on my part. Am I being overly righteous? I think he intimidates people (especially women) into paying exhorbitant bills (after luring them in with lowball offers) and he belongs in jail. I' m not saying I can make that happen, just my opinion. My husband says 'if he goes away and we never hear from him again, that's a win'. But he wasn't the one who was harrassed on the phone and via email and texts. And assaulted.

WWYD?

SHORT VERSION: Hired a builder/contractor guy. Got send a huge bill. Disputed the bill. Got assaulted.

OP posts:
MildlyMiserable · 17/03/2023 02:31

OP these “tradesmen” are chancers, saw an opportunity and took it.
My neighbour was having work done paving his garden and I needed a couple of fence panels between our gardens replaced, I asked his “builders” a quote, they said the boss would give me a price, he did £600 for 3 £35 fence panels. It’s not what they say but how they say it that gives them away, I declined the quote. I warned my neighbour of my thoughts on the “tradesmen”, he thought they were lovely, they ended up replacing half his roof, cladding his garage, convincing him to do other works that were never needed, some of which they started and never finished, leaving his once lovely house in a state of disrepair. I have no idea what he paid them as he is too proud to admit that he got ripped off, but his health has continually declined since it all started. It’s easy to get caught out, not so easy to get out once caught up.
So do report to all the bodies you can, to stop them, even if only for a while, and I hope you have a positive outcome with the police.
Check your emails - they must have contacted you initially from the trade site offering their services for the job?

EmmaDilemma5 · 17/03/2023 02:40

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 01:02

Honestly like, do you know how assey you sound? I never claimed that I wasn't ripped off. I am fully aware. We were trying to get them to go away after we sent a letter saying 'we dispute this invoice' and they went ballistic.

I love that so many responses here are like 'I would never fall for that'. Are you sure? Because they weren't a$$holes when they came over. They were really friendly and pleasant. He sent me a quote quickly. He seem interested in doing a lot of work for us. He even sent another quote to build a wooden deck, which I declined, which was perfectly laid out at a fixed rate.

I agreed to the hourly rate because he seemed totally professional. But NOOOO you would NEVER fall for that.

You're the only person who sounds arsy.

Of course they were quick to quote and start.

Always get three quotes. Always be wary of people who can start straight away, most good tradesmen have waits because they're good and hence high demand for them.

You.song be the first of last person to fall for a scam, and I get it's not nice to be told you were wrong to pay, but you were. Paying £4k for the job you received is totally OTT and it's going to be very difficult/impossible to get any money back now.

Your priority now needs to be on getting CCTV with hopes they don't come back to cause more damage.

RockClimber · 17/03/2023 02:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

And yet here you are. Repeatedly.

Is that you, Ollie?

DaveDave · 17/03/2023 02:43

He punched you! I can't believe all the flack you're getting here. Talk about victim blaming. I hope you're ok xx

MissMissive · 17/03/2023 02:54

EmmaDilemma5 · 17/03/2023 02:17

Always get a job price, not hourly rate - for this exact reason.

You've been scammed. Unfortunately they know where you live with adds a big risk.

I think she knows both of those very obvious things now.

EmmaDilemma5 · 17/03/2023 03:05

MissMissive · 17/03/2023 02:54

I think she knows both of those very obvious things now.

Nope. She defended the hourly rate a few times.

Naddd · 17/03/2023 03:09

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 16/03/2023 21:50

4K? 4K???

What did I just read??

I've had jobs like that done for 500 or 600.

I would fight it but that's because I don't let rude men push me around.

Push her around? Did you even read the post?

He assaulted her!

YOU wouldn't let anyone push you around? Implying the op is somehow at fault and allowed herself to be assaulted? As if you'd stand a chance against a grown ass man.

You are an utter imbecile.

MissMissive · 17/03/2023 03:10

EmmaDilemma5 · 17/03/2023 03:05

Nope. She defended the hourly rate a few times.

Oh I take it back then. Stellar advice.

Naddd · 17/03/2023 03:17

Onnabugeisha · 16/03/2023 23:17

This is neither here nor there but the third member of their team was this extremely quiet guy that the other two just yelled at constantly. He did the most work of the three of them, carting stuff back and forth with a wheelbarrow. He was super sweet to my dog. Yeah ok, he came back to dump garbage too but he was redfaced and looked really like he did not want to be there.

Actually OP mention this to the police as this is a huge red flag for modern slavery. Thousands of young men are trafficked to work as slaves for these sort of cowboy tradesmen. The third man could have quite literally been a slave. This needs to be investigated on top of your assault.

This is a very good point

I don't think it would even occur to most people

Op definitely DO tell the police about this.

Kennykenkencat · 17/03/2023 03:58

I would claim all the money back that involved getting rid of the stuff at the tip and the hours they charged and the diesel they charged for as quite clearly the stuff never went to the tip.

Unfortunately, I don’t want to worry you but you paid for this guy to dispose of this rubbish.

It might have been fly tipped by him on your pavement but it ultimately is still your rubbish and you could be fined for not disposing of it properly.
I remember a well known actress being fined for not disposing of rubbish after she paid someone to remove it as she needed to check that they had a waste removal licence.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 17/03/2023 04:41

OP I'm sorry you've got so many crap responses on here.

I hope that the CPS decide to prosecute this man for assault. He sounds horrendous. Please contact your local trading standards office as well.

I've occasionally seen posts on our local FB page saying things like "Has anyone used X person and had a bad experience? If so, please can you PM me" so that nothing is said in public. But don't even do that without checking with police first.

When I saw what you wrote about the 3rd person in the team, I immediately thought Modern Slavery, I think the police should investigate that.

I hope that this guy doesn't create more issues for you.

Tiani4 · 17/03/2023 04:50

Sounds terrible OP
Glad police arrested the man that assaulted you

Lots of good advice on here including reporting them to Trading Standards - as this is rogue builders arena with shoddy practice (over charging you for trips not done/ unfair practice under consumer legislation)

But also please get a non molestation order against the man who assaulted you. You've plenty enough evidence including video of him assaulting you

That way if he contacts you or tries to harass you in anyway , police have powers to arrest him for breaching it. (Or anyone that acts in his behalf)

Don't wait for outcome of court/ whether CPS charge him and go to court that can take months. You need to get non molestation order within reasonable time period if the assault. Your house insurance may have legal cover to do this for you . You can do it Ex parte

ColdDeadHeart · 17/03/2023 05:35

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 22:03

I'm American, those be American words lol.
I have an appointment with the police tomorrow to file a complaint.

I picked up on the Americanisms too, and Doctors Office, and then I was sure you couldn’t be UK based, as you’d got an appointment.

Thats all my take on this.
Good luck with everthing

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 05:59

EmmaDilemma5 · 17/03/2023 03:05

Nope. She defended the hourly rate a few times.

I’m not defending anything! I explained why I agreed and my experience with that. I also said WWYD. I do not have a time machine to go back and change that I hired them. All these people telling me I should not have hired them is unhelpful at best and pretty nasty at worst. If you think someone deserves being assaulted because they hired at an hourly wage… well please just think about what you’re saying.

OP posts:
Spirogyra · 17/03/2023 06:05

I also thought of modern slavery when reading about the man doing most of the work. The College of Policing has guidelines, l really hope when you tell them that it is investigated properly https://www.college.police.uk/app/major-investigation-and-public-protection/modern-slavery/key-responsibilities
Also found some shocking articles
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/13/modern-slavery-uk-traveller-site-lincolnshire-judge-timothy-spencer
and a short incompletely local newspaper one
https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/2202528.slaves-are-still-common/

and more detailed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Netwing

PopsicleHustler · 17/03/2023 06:14

Sorry OP you went through this. What a nightmare.

Judge judy would have this Ollie guy for breakfast.

whatever1980 · 17/03/2023 06:14

Please report the quiet bloke to the police. A ‘tradesman’ my elderly mum used in an emergency was prosecuted a couple of years ago for keeping a vulnerable man in a shed for 18 years - he used the bloke to do the building jobs no one else wanted to do. The tradesman was ever so nice - then ripped off my mother and was prosecuted. Horrific story.

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 06:16

EmmaGrundyForPM · 17/03/2023 04:41

OP I'm sorry you've got so many crap responses on here.

I hope that the CPS decide to prosecute this man for assault. He sounds horrendous. Please contact your local trading standards office as well.

I've occasionally seen posts on our local FB page saying things like "Has anyone used X person and had a bad experience? If so, please can you PM me" so that nothing is said in public. But don't even do that without checking with police first.

When I saw what you wrote about the 3rd person in the team, I immediately thought Modern Slavery, I think the police should investigate that.

I hope that this guy doesn't create more issues for you.

I don’t think CPS is going to do anything. Because I wasn’t seriously injured. That’s why I was asking people WwYD. many have pointed out that it’s a CPS decision. In the US you can sue take someone to court for all sorts of reasons, liability and emotional distress and all kinds of shit. Doesn’t seem like that’s a possibility here. I think that’s why he came back to dump. He really wont face any consequences. I felt really enraged that the police would not stop him. He literally did it in front of them. I thought flytipping was illegal. It was OLLIE was dumping it out.

OP posts:
PopsicleHustler · 17/03/2023 06:18

The whole thing sounds dreadful, from the disappearing off for hours and slowly working and dithering to the assault and dumping the crap on your lawn or on the public path .i mean what the actual hell.

I wish you never gave 4k. I wish your husband didn't suggest doing it to get them off your backs, I would have paid the original quote and just called the police if and when they showed up dumping the crap on the street and getting abusive. What a nightmare. I hope you get it resolved and I would love to see this Oliver guy in prison. What a bunch of dead beats. I can't believe he had the audacity to try and punch you. Glad you got it filmed. I am so furious on your behalf.

As for the unhelpful replies, I mean,I was just shaking my head at half of them.

PopsicleHustler · 17/03/2023 06:20

In your last post, op the police sound bloody useless. What are do you live in if you don't mind. Some towns/cities police are more relaxed than others. How many officers showed up? Was it one wimpy one on his own intimidated by 3 or 4 chavvy builder guys?

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 06:24

ColdDeadHeart · 17/03/2023 05:35

I picked up on the Americanisms too, and Doctors Office, and then I was sure you couldn’t be UK based, as you’d got an appointment.

Thats all my take on this.
Good luck with everthing

Your take is that I don’t live in UK? Your take is wrong. If I lived in the US and someone tried this I would have gone and got my gun and they’d either be away from my property or very badly injured. And the police would still have arrested them for trespassing. That’s sort of a joke. My point is, thugs like this don’t exist in the US because they cannot get away with it. Defence of self and property is king in US. I actually dont want to live in a place with guns but then sometimes I think ‘man a gun would have been handy here’

OP posts:
Meandfour · 17/03/2023 06:28

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 06:24

Your take is that I don’t live in UK? Your take is wrong. If I lived in the US and someone tried this I would have gone and got my gun and they’d either be away from my property or very badly injured. And the police would still have arrested them for trespassing. That’s sort of a joke. My point is, thugs like this don’t exist in the US because they cannot get away with it. Defence of self and property is king in US. I actually dont want to live in a place with guns but then sometimes I think ‘man a gun would have been handy here’

Many of us have assumed the same from the way you speak. Even the “man, a gun would’ve been handy here”

SettlingForANewPassword · 17/03/2023 06:29

changerling · 16/03/2023 21:22

Seek legal advice and speak to trading standards.
Ignore other posters saying to publicly criticise him. This may harm you if you're seeking police prosecution the assault or any legal action you may wish to take. Keep things off social media until you have been given legal advice.

That is what I think also.

You can make a claim in the small claims court for the money back I think,. CAB can advise or indeed a solicitor.

Also if he has dumped stuff outside your house (flytipping) environemtal health as well?

Murdoch1949 · 17/03/2023 06:33

Absolutely horrendous. You really should take this to the small claims court, the amount comes within their remit. It costs you very little to do this, and you have an excellent case. The 'builders' are absolute tossers, they'll be doing this on every job they get, so also report to Trading Standards. I can understand why you paid, but you were hasty doing this until totally satisfied. Now go after them legally.

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 06:33

PopsicleHustler · 17/03/2023 06:20

In your last post, op the police sound bloody useless. What are do you live in if you don't mind. Some towns/cities police are more relaxed than others. How many officers showed up? Was it one wimpy one on his own intimidated by 3 or 4 chavvy builder guys?

Hull area and 2
It’s all a blur now. They showed up and asked me to go inside. Then my husband showed up and things kicked off.
Then they talked to the guy for ages
It became obvious to me that he had dealt with police before and was not afraid.
All matey and ‘we just called to work it out’ A pack of lies
They were literally going to let him go and I showed one the video. All of a sudden his demeanour changed.
The police say 1) council will tidy the mess. It is currently blocking our drive and I’m like ok, when??
2) he will receive a fine since they know it was him
3) I have to go make a statement.

OP posts:
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