Dispute with builder escalated to assault

[pollykitty]

I had a bizarre violent altercation today with a builder, and I don't know what to think or do about it anymore. I think I am still in shock and would appreciate some objective advice.

The long version: A couple of weeks ago I was looking for someone to clear a part of our garden. An old shed, overgrown area, old rotten swing set and small patio (not cement, like klinker stones). I could not find anyone and posted on one of these sites where you tell them about the job and then tradespeople get in contact to make quotes. This young guy (called Ollie) got in touch almost immediately. He has a company and everything. He came around with a coworker and they seemed ok. He said he could clear my garden in a day with a small digger and would send me a quote. Since it was a bit of an unknown quanitity in terms of labor, he quoted 45/hr per man and for the digger and diesel. Since he said it would take 1 day, I thought ok, that would be fast and expensive (around 1,600). But alright.

Three of them showed up on a the day (last Thursday) around 10:30am and started working. No digger in site. They disappeared at lunchtime for 3 hours. Came back and said 'we had to go do something else'. Worked a bit again, digger arrived at 3pm and they left again for 2 hours with a full trailer. Came back at did some more until 7pm (ug). But it wasn't done. And when they left the house, the passageway through the garage/house was absolutely filthy (we don't have side or rear access to our garden). Also unbeknowst to us at the time, diesel had been spilt all over the garage floor. We didn't smell it at first but then I woke up in the night gagging due to the fumes. They did clear most of the back but not everything and said they would come back next day.

On Friday two of them showed up at 10:30 and it was obvious to me by then that they were just stretching out the time as much as possible to charge me. I still thought 'ok it will be more but fine'. It was infuriating to watch though. They'd work for like 45 minutes, disappear for 2 hours, come back, disappear etc. They said the traffic to the tip was terrible. By 6pm I was fed up and wanted them out of my house. Ollie showed up at 4pm and helped them finish up. Around 7pm I actually had to kick them out of my house. They were standing in the garage smoking. Again, the house was an absolute TIP in the area near the garden. They moved furniture around, mud everywhere. It took us 2 days to fully clean up.

Any guesses as the the invoice they sent me? If you were thinking 2K or 3K or 4K you'd be wrong. 5K.

I nearly had a heart attack. They added charges that had never been mentioned to me. 800 for mileage to the tip. 800 for waste disposal. And claimed 52 hours of labor. My husband and I sat down and worked out what we thought was fair and reasonable. We accomodated the charges that were not in the offer. It came to about 3500.

We wrote a letter(email) explaining our dispute, and asked them to provide futher evidence of their work. Such as receipts from the waste site and so on. The address of the waste site (for mileage) etc. Ollie started calling me nonstop. He sent harrassing texts. His brother got involved. My husband called them and asked them to reply to the email, and we'd go from there.

To be fair they did. But their reply was nonsensical and difficult to follow and while some receipts were valid, others were dated from early March and clearly not from our house. We believe now that the reason they were gone so long was that they were picking up rubbish from other sites or even their own rubbish, adding it to our trailers, and trying to charge us. From the moment they sent their reply, they started harrassing me. I received approximately 20 phone calls last night between midnight and 3am. Texts saying if I don't pay, we're going to stick the bailiffs on you and charge interest. Etc. Also just general demands to respond.

We did respond, adding a bit more to accomodate the receipts, and sent 4000 today. We disputed the rest in a registered letter.

So he got 4000 quid 5 days after his invoice was sent. Today he the left me a voice mail saying he was going to 'dump my garden garbage on my drive unless i paid the rest of my bill'

And then he did. He showed up with his van and trailer and his mate. He didn't get on to my drive, because I moved the car to the end, but started dumping it out of the trailer on the side walk. I had literally just come home when he turned up and started filming him doing so (after calling the police) and then he assaulted me.

He shoved me and tried to punch me. Luckily it's on video.

I wasn't really hurt but unfortunately the police didn't show up until after. Of course what came then was a lot of shouting back and forth, as the police tried to descalate the situation. At first they were like, 'it's a civil matter'. But then I showed one copper the video and he changed his mind. Because he dumped a huge amount of garden sht on the pavement, the city will have to clean it up. He will fined for cleaning it up. He will receive a fine for fly tipping etc. They open a file for the assult. I should add, we were right about our theory. Not only was he lying about taking our garbage to the tip (otherwise why would he still have it??), he left stuff on the sidewalk that does not even belong to us. Including 8 huge tyres.

Now I am here typing this because my husband and I disagree about what to do (not angrily, just under discussion). I want to go to lawyer. I really don't know if I can do anything. I want to file a counter claim for a refund as he lied about going to the tip (he even said 'I have 9 more loads to dump on you' And I want to do anything I can to get this guy shut down and out of business. I want to leave the most devastingly worded google review so that no one ever hires him again. I actually believe not to do so is like, immoral on my part. Am I being overly righteous? I think he intimidates people (especially women) into paying exhorbitant bills (after luring them in with lowball offers) and he belongs in jail. I' m not saying I can make that happen, just my opinion. My husband says 'if he goes away and we never hear from him again, that's a win'. But he wasn't the one who was harrassed on the phone and via email and texts. And assaulted.

WWYD?

SHORT VERSION: Hired a builder/contractor guy. Got send a huge bill. Disputed the bill. Got assaulted.

I’m so sorry this happened to you - it sounds terrifying and infuriating.

OP just ignore that poster and don't let them derail, I've report so hopefully the nonsense will short be deleted.

Yeah, I think insulting my husband is not going to really get a thumbs up.
Not want to engage further with a violent person is not 'wet'.
I posted elsewhere about my husband's initial response.
You have to remember we sent him 4K today and he did this. Because he thinks we cheated him.

My husband and I have talked about this possibility.
I haven't mentioned this but I googled Ollie (not his company, him), and I think he is a drug addict or a drug dealer too. Weed mainly. He has social media accounts and the posts are mainly about getting high.

Wish I'd thought to google him beforehand.
I just don't think like that. He was alright when he came to quote.

Id not try to sabotage via a vendetta what the police will be trying to do
I undestand why you’re upset but I’d not give them more reasons for future assaults

Actually I was ok with the outcome. The garden was cleared and it's fine now. So I felt they deserved to be paid. But the bill was outrageous for what they did. Also my husband did call them. And all they said was, pay us pay us pay us. You cannot dispute our bill. Pay us now.

I'd be extremely weary of the repercussions of all of this. I know that doesn't mean they should be able to get away with it or anything, but something tells me this is just the beginning of all of this 😭

Oh my GOODNESS @pollykitty
You were taken for a “Mug”.
You should not have paid these CRIMINALS a penny more than quote.

Absolutely press charges.
What an appalling cowboy setup.
Name and shame.
Go to local papers.

That is awful to read, it wouldn't even occur to me. I will mention it.

Me too. Their posts have an AI pattern to them.

Not necessarily. Don't forget the OP & husband actually handed over 4k.
I doubt the thugs will risk their win now the police are involved. Unless, that is, they feel they can get more cash out DH.

The thugs are not out for the fun of fight - they're out to see how much they can get out of compliant and often vulnerable people. No cash, no thugs.

Glad you will mention it to the police. I think your gut instinct is spot on about these guys. This often goes under the radar because people are not as observant as you.
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/04/uk-man-given-suspended-prison-sentence-for-exploiting-victim-of-slavery

Honestly, if it was me, I would have just paid the money too. These guys sound like lunatics. This is real life and I'm no hero. I wouldn't have any faith in the police protecting me if things escalate. I would just want them gone.

Actually, not taking it further with a violent person who cons you is how these people keep on getting away with it. You do you.

And FWIW I'm currently in a massive dispute with my neighbour, and I have had to get police involved as he is aggressive and violent, I refuse to take any shit.

I think a bill of £1000 would have been a lot.

Last year we had a recommended man come and dig up a 10 by 10square of our garden, remove stones and shrubs, build a pavemented area that size for a new shed. It cost us £350- we used the slabs from an old patio. We have him £400. He arrived at 9am, with his equipment, did a great job, left no mess and was lovely.

We also had a patio area built last summer about 16ft x 16ft and new matching path down garden- old patio taken up, foundations dug up, new foundation laid, new patio laid.
Two sides of the garden re-fenced, new garden door built into fence with security locks and bolts.
15 ft track cleared through undergrowth outside of garden on bridleway, weed inhibiting fabric laid and covered in heavy duty chippings.
All rubble and garden rubbish removed.
Small paved area for bench laid outside of sitting room to get the last of the sun- old crazy paving dug up, new paving laid.
All materials included.

£3600

You should have had a written quote.

With all that money to share, why not just go to some fancy Landscape Architects to remove the rubbish via a rented skip & get some fancy naice

terraced flower-beds built at the same time?

At least it's a 5k bill with something to show for it and no knuckle-fights?

I paid £650 to clear a garden so overgrown that there was no way of getting out there or telling where it ends. The fee also included removal of a brick-built outbuilding full to the rafters with junk. Two guys, 3 days.

I also had a 2.1k quote for the same job. Didn't take that one.

I don't know how many time I have to say I did get a quote. And I was looking to get it done extremely quickly for reasons that are irrelevant, which is why I agreed to a higher inital quote than I would have preferred. One day in and out.
Telling me that you had some lovely people do work in the garden is absolutely wonderful for you but I don't really understand wtf you want me to say.
It comes across as very smug and trying to rub my shitty experience in my face. THANKS!
I've had plenty of positive experiences with builders who did brilliant jobs for me and I was happy to pay their reasonable bills.
This is not about that.

Are you joking you paid 4000 for that. Never in all my business years would I have ever encouraged a person to pay double for a clearing job. This is the daftest thing I've ever heard of. You pay what your quoted and maybe a little more for a beer if they did a good job. You've clearly fallen for cowboys our removal and clearing company your looking at just under a grand for a day's work and 2 men. 45ph unbelievable. Its guys like this who give us genuine workers all permits in place etc a bad name. Good luck sorting it but you should never have paid you have well and truly been ripped off. Also if they were able to bring back the rubbish then they never had the proper permits for taking it to the correct rubbish centres.

This made me laugh. I actually thought about hiring a LA but thought 'nah too expensive'

Well, yes, if I had the time for all that I would have, but the OP was in a rush and so didn't have time to hire landscape architects to draw up nice plans and subcontract out the work to tree doctors and digger drivers. She wasn't to know the builders she hired are thugs.

OP, I just think that agreeing to an exceedingly high estimate and hourly rate highlighted you as someone ripe for picking.
That's what people are trying to highlight with the usual pricing.

And I know you mentioned about doing some hourly-work yourself... It doesn't matter because not all jobs are the same. NEVER pay any trades by the hour or day - only you as a client can lose out with that agreement. They have you "by the balls" as soon as that happens.
Not every hourly-builder is a scammer but most are. Don't risk it.

You made a mistake by sending them £4,000 because it confirmed you were pushovers and opened the door (from their perspective) to them trying to extort more money from you by coming to the house.

You're not getting your money back, so don't throw good money after bad by enlisting the help of a solicitor.

I'd be tempted to post on social media, too, but it'd be a stupid thing to do because it'll give them a personal motive to continue to harass you and could lead to an escalation.

It's great that the police took down their personal details; you're unlikely to hear from them again as a result.

I'd recommend you write it off as a bad job, make sure you get a written fixed-price quote before you have any future work done, and never pay a penny more than you've agreed to.