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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Dispute with builder escalated to assault

268 replies

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 20:45

I had a bizarre violent altercation today with a builder, and I don't know what to think or do about it anymore. I think I am still in shock and would appreciate some objective advice.

The long version: A couple of weeks ago I was looking for someone to clear a part of our garden. An old shed, overgrown area, old rotten swing set and small patio (not cement, like klinker stones). I could not find anyone and posted on one of these sites where you tell them about the job and then tradespeople get in contact to make quotes. This young guy (called Ollie) got in touch almost immediately. He has a company and everything. He came around with a coworker and they seemed ok. He said he could clear my garden in a day with a small digger and would send me a quote. Since it was a bit of an unknown quanitity in terms of labor, he quoted 45/hr per man and for the digger and diesel. Since he said it would take 1 day, I thought ok, that would be fast and expensive (around 1,600). But alright.

Three of them showed up on a the day (last Thursday) around 10:30am and started working. No digger in site. They disappeared at lunchtime for 3 hours. Came back and said 'we had to go do something else'. Worked a bit again, digger arrived at 3pm and they left again for 2 hours with a full trailer. Came back at did some more until 7pm (ug). But it wasn't done. And when they left the house, the passageway through the garage/house was absolutely filthy (we don't have side or rear access to our garden). Also unbeknowst to us at the time, diesel had been spilt all over the garage floor. We didn't smell it at first but then I woke up in the night gagging due to the fumes. They did clear most of the back but not everything and said they would come back next day.

On Friday two of them showed up at 10:30 and it was obvious to me by then that they were just stretching out the time as much as possible to charge me. I still thought 'ok it will be more but fine'. It was infuriating to watch though. They'd work for like 45 minutes, disappear for 2 hours, come back, disappear etc. They said the traffic to the tip was terrible. By 6pm I was fed up and wanted them out of my house. Ollie showed up at 4pm and helped them finish up. Around 7pm I actually had to kick them out of my house. They were standing in the garage smoking. Again, the house was an absolute TIP in the area near the garden. They moved furniture around, mud everywhere. It took us 2 days to fully clean up.

Any guesses as the the invoice they sent me? If you were thinking 2K or 3K or 4K you'd be wrong. 5K.

I nearly had a heart attack. They added charges that had never been mentioned to me. 800 for mileage to the tip. 800 for waste disposal. And claimed 52 hours of labor. My husband and I sat down and worked out what we thought was fair and reasonable. We accomodated the charges that were not in the offer. It came to about 3500.

We wrote a letter(email) explaining our dispute, and asked them to provide futher evidence of their work. Such as receipts from the waste site and so on. The address of the waste site (for mileage) etc. Ollie started calling me nonstop. He sent harrassing texts. His brother got involved. My husband called them and asked them to reply to the email, and we'd go from there.

To be fair they did. But their reply was nonsensical and difficult to follow and while some receipts were valid, others were dated from early March and clearly not from our house. We believe now that the reason they were gone so long was that they were picking up rubbish from other sites or even their own rubbish, adding it to our trailers, and trying to charge us. From the moment they sent their reply, they started harrassing me. I received approximately 20 phone calls last night between midnight and 3am. Texts saying if I don't pay, we're going to stick the bailiffs on you and charge interest. Etc. Also just general demands to respond.

We did respond, adding a bit more to accomodate the receipts, and sent 4000 today. We disputed the rest in a registered letter.

So he got 4000 quid 5 days after his invoice was sent. Today he the left me a voice mail saying he was going to 'dump my garden garbage on my drive unless i paid the rest of my bill'

And then he did. He showed up with his van and trailer and his mate. He didn't get on to my drive, because I moved the car to the end, but started dumping it out of the trailer on the side walk. I had literally just come home when he turned up and started filming him doing so (after calling the police) and then he assaulted me.

He shoved me and tried to punch me. Luckily it's on video.

I wasn't really hurt but unfortunately the police didn't show up until after. Of course what came then was a lot of shouting back and forth, as the police tried to descalate the situation. At first they were like, 'it's a civil matter'. But then I showed one copper the video and he changed his mind. Because he dumped a huge amount of garden sht on the pavement, the city will have to clean it up. He will fined for cleaning it up. He will receive a fine for fly tipping etc. They open a file for the assult. I should add, we were right about our theory. Not only was he lying about taking our garbage to the tip (otherwise why would he still have it??), he left stuff on the sidewalk that does not even belong to us. Including 8 huge tyres.

Now I am here typing this because my husband and I disagree about what to do (not angrily, just under discussion). I want to go to lawyer. I really don't know if I can do anything. I want to file a counter claim for a refund as he lied about going to the tip (he even said 'I have 9 more loads to dump on you' And I want to do anything I can to get this guy shut down and out of business. I want to leave the most devastingly worded google review so that no one ever hires him again. I actually believe not to do so is like, immoral on my part. Am I being overly righteous? I think he intimidates people (especially women) into paying exhorbitant bills (after luring them in with lowball offers) and he belongs in jail. I' m not saying I can make that happen, just my opinion. My husband says 'if he goes away and we never hear from him again, that's a win'. But he wasn't the one who was harrassed on the phone and via email and texts. And assaulted.

WWYD?

SHORT VERSION: Hired a builder/contractor guy. Got send a huge bill. Disputed the bill. Got assaulted.

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 17/03/2023 15:35

RudsyFarmer · 17/03/2023 10:26

The description of the third man just jumped out at me. Do you think there could be a modern slavery aspect to this too? Was the third man a different nationality or do you think he might have had learning difficulties? I’ve watched enough of this stuff in documentaries to know it goes on everywhere.

I highlighted this to the OP yesterday as well and she said she was going to mention it to the police when she does her report today. Half of modern slaves in Britain are actually British btw.

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 15:44

Onnabugeisha · 17/03/2023 15:35

I highlighted this to the OP yesterday as well and she said she was going to mention it to the police when she does her report today. Half of modern slaves in Britain are actually British btw.

No he was British. He was dead quiet unless on his own. I chatted to him a bit when they were working. Extremely polite. Loved my dog. He just did not give the same vibe as the other two. Having said that he did come dump garbage too. I should have said I started to get very bad vibes from the first day. I just had a sinking feeling. Ollie and the other (his brother) were just giving me goose bumps which I know is my intuition telling me ‘there is something wrong here’.

OP posts:
pollykitty · 17/03/2023 15:48

Onnabugeisha · 17/03/2023 15:33

As you say, OP, thugs like this don’t exist in the US because they cannot get away with it. Defence of self and property is king in US. I actually dont want to live in a place with guns but then sometimes I think ‘man a gun would have been handy here.

My American husband has had a good laugh about this. They most certainly do exist in the US and are more dangerous. Your husband wouldn’t have been able to get in their face screaming at them to get the fuck off his property for one. The police might have rolled up and shot everyone and then sorted out who actually is the homeowner and who the aggressor.

Yes if course I’m exaggerating. Criminals are everywhere. You are proving my point. No need to go scream at someone to get off your property when holding a gun. Did your husband grow up with guns? Because I did. Guns are everywhere in the countryside and people do use them to scare off minor criminals like these twats.

OP posts:
pollykitty · 17/03/2023 15:52

LemonSwan · 17/03/2023 11:53

Gosh this is awful!

So sorry OP and ignore the posters who are being horrible. Totally out of order!

I would do as another poster said and just try to draw a line. Like you I would be beyond fuming and want money back but equally as they said this man sounds dangerous. It’s not right we should keel over to bullying and aggression and if you want to make a stand you should but I also think this seems like a final end and any further action could cause a reaction if he is so unhinged. Very unfair but you need to concentrate on pursuing the assault IMO, and could log with a lawyer so you have a record of wanting to take further action but being too threatened.

Next time you consider landscape work I recommend the Bali list. It is an approved list of reputable companies.

With regard your new garden - just be careful with planting near to or in summer. We are landscapers ourselves. We very occasionally do plant towards end of spring but only on super small jobs and grit our teeth, pray to the weather gods, refuse to warranty plants and warn the clients it’s less than ideal!

Ideally you want to plant September to Feb; can just about get away with March. The reason being the plants will stress and root growth will be in the zone where water is. When artificially watering or light summer showers this is usually the top layer of soil. Meaning their roots grow in the danger zone which becomes driest first naturally. Making every summer onwards a battle of watering and god help you if there’s a drought!

You can help avoid this by watering infrequently but for really long. So that when they do get water it is down in the bottom layers. But it is a hell of a lot of water and not very sustainable way to do it.

Goodluck. Hoping they don’t return and that’s the end of this nightmare for you! So sorry you had to go through this.

Wow thanks for garden advice! Yes I knew planting close to summer was a bad idea, did not realize how much so.

OP posts:
Georgyporky · 17/03/2023 15:58

I doubt you'll get very far if you try to pursue them Did you have a land-line & a verifiable permanent address? They're probably long gone & scamming/frightening other people miles away.

BorgQueen · 17/03/2023 16:01

Assume you hired him from something like My Builder / Check a trade etc. ?
That’s where you leave your withering review. Did you check out his reviews when you hired him?

I’d make it my mission to destroy his ‘business’ any way I could.

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 17:36

BorgQueen · 17/03/2023 16:01

Assume you hired him from something like My Builder / Check a trade etc. ?
That’s where you leave your withering review. Did you check out his reviews when you hired him?

I’d make it my mission to destroy his ‘business’ any way I could.

Yes that’s my goal. I’ve made it quite clear to my husband. I have brainstormed a lot of non-costly legal ways. Leaving one bad review is minor league ha ha

OP posts:
pollykitty · 17/03/2023 17:37

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 17:36

Yes that’s my goal. I’ve made it quite clear to my husband. I have brainstormed a lot of non-costly legal ways. Leaving one bad review is minor league ha ha

And yes he did have reviews and they were fine. This is what I cannot understand. Some people raving about him.

OP posts:
pollykitty · 17/03/2023 17:38

Georgyporky · 17/03/2023 15:58

I doubt you'll get very far if you try to pursue them Did you have a land-line & a verifiable permanent address? They're probably long gone & scamming/frightening other people miles away.

It’s funny you say that because his business address is defunct. But he’s such a dimwit it took about 20 seconds of googling to find him.

OP posts:
FrostyFifi · 17/03/2023 17:53

And yes he did have reviews and they were fine. This is what I cannot understand. Some people raving about him

Fake reviews. Makes the sites less than useful. I got a tiler from there years ago, glowing reviews but he really wasn't very good. He was at least cheap and polite though!

Onnabugeisha · 17/03/2023 18:32

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 15:48

Yes if course I’m exaggerating. Criminals are everywhere. You are proving my point. No need to go scream at someone to get off your property when holding a gun. Did your husband grow up with guns? Because I did. Guns are everywhere in the countryside and people do use them to scare off minor criminals like these twats.

Yes he did. I met him there and he owned several rifles and a half dozen hand guns. Obviously he doesn’t own any now…that was sort of the price of relocating here with me.

Oh yes, people definitely will be quick to display a gun to scare off twats anywhere in the US. I was just thinking these cowboy contractors if they were American they would have rolled up with their guns plus the rubbish. Then even if your DH had a gun too, he’d be out gunned.

Onnabugeisha · 17/03/2023 18:32

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 17:37

And yes he did have reviews and they were fine. This is what I cannot understand. Some people raving about him.

Probably his mates.

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 20:29

Onnabugeisha · 17/03/2023 18:32

Yes he did. I met him there and he owned several rifles and a half dozen hand guns. Obviously he doesn’t own any now…that was sort of the price of relocating here with me.

Oh yes, people definitely will be quick to display a gun to scare off twats anywhere in the US. I was just thinking these cowboy contractors if they were American they would have rolled up with their guns plus the rubbish. Then even if your DH had a gun too, he’d be out gunned.

This making me lol. What a silly debate but sort of fun. Why is it my DH who has the gun? He has never fired a gun in his life. I have fired many. The idea that a thug contractor would roll up in the US with his team packed out in guns and rubbish is hilarious and ludicrous. That’s why I said, these types do not exist in the US. My brother is a contractor and fixes dodgy contractors bad builds all the time. They are not interested in provoking and violence. They get as much money as they can and get gone. If for funsies, we say they did roll up, American houses are bult with so much fore space that they wouldn’t even get close before being told to bugger off with a gunshot. one person in a house is not ‘outgunned’ by a few outside in open ground. Then the police come and they see a bunch of guys outside a house with guns? No. You know what American cops are like. They would be dead. In many states in the US, it is completely legal to shoot someone trespassing on your property with no repercussions.

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 17/03/2023 21:31

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 20:29

This making me lol. What a silly debate but sort of fun. Why is it my DH who has the gun? He has never fired a gun in his life. I have fired many. The idea that a thug contractor would roll up in the US with his team packed out in guns and rubbish is hilarious and ludicrous. That’s why I said, these types do not exist in the US. My brother is a contractor and fixes dodgy contractors bad builds all the time. They are not interested in provoking and violence. They get as much money as they can and get gone. If for funsies, we say they did roll up, American houses are bult with so much fore space that they wouldn’t even get close before being told to bugger off with a gunshot. one person in a house is not ‘outgunned’ by a few outside in open ground. Then the police come and they see a bunch of guys outside a house with guns? No. You know what American cops are like. They would be dead. In many states in the US, it is completely legal to shoot someone trespassing on your property with no repercussions.

Whatever. You must be from much nicer neighbourhoods than my husband. I said you would not be in their faces in the US and you’ve just agreed with that by saying you’d be in the house taking pot shots. It’s not actually ridiculous or ludicrous to think cowboy contractors would bring guns with them to vandalise your property. Most gun owners keep a gun in their car glove box or in the case of contractors, in their pick up truck every day, wherever they go in the countryside. So they’d already have them with them- as presumably they’d be using their vehicle and their trailer to get to your home.

Also, I am the one who said the cops would shoot first and ask questions next- so baffled why you’re saying “No” and then paraphrasing what I said?

You have fundamentally misunderstood the stand your ground laws as they still require that you be defending yourself from an attacker with a deadly weapon for it to be a justifiable homicide. You can’t legally shoot a person for trespassing without repercussions in any state in the US. That’s a common myth here in the U.K. though…

Divorcedalongtime · 17/03/2023 21:53

Wow, as a landscape gardener who often do garden clearances with machinery those prices are insane.
I would try solicitor for sure

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/03/2023 22:59

He did have reviews and they were fine. This is what I cannot understand. Some people raving about him

Google "buy reviews" and all will become clear ...

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 23:18

Onnabugeisha · 17/03/2023 21:31

Whatever. You must be from much nicer neighbourhoods than my husband. I said you would not be in their faces in the US and you’ve just agreed with that by saying you’d be in the house taking pot shots. It’s not actually ridiculous or ludicrous to think cowboy contractors would bring guns with them to vandalise your property. Most gun owners keep a gun in their car glove box or in the case of contractors, in their pick up truck every day, wherever they go in the countryside. So they’d already have them with them- as presumably they’d be using their vehicle and their trailer to get to your home.

Also, I am the one who said the cops would shoot first and ask questions next- so baffled why you’re saying “No” and then paraphrasing what I said?

You have fundamentally misunderstood the stand your ground laws as they still require that you be defending yourself from an attacker with a deadly weapon for it to be a justifiable homicide. You can’t legally shoot a person for trespassing without repercussions in any state in the US. That’s a common myth here in the U.K. though…

All I’m gonna say is

  • You seem upset about debating an entirely ridiculous hypothetical scenario and my original point that this would not happen is my strongest opinion
  • I understand the laws around trespass just fine thanks. They vary by state, and is situational depending on circumstances and perceived threat to life. If contractors that I had a dispute with showed up with visible guns to my property, it would be a reasonable response to feel my life was threatened and shoot them. Perhaps saying it is ‘legal’ is overstepping but it is also highly unlikely in that scenario that a property owner would be prosecuted

Bye!

OP posts:
QueenCamilla · 18/03/2023 00:15

@pollykitty

Oh, I'm in Hull too - no wonder your experience with builders match mine.
I've lived (and re-furbed houses) in quite a few places in UK but have never seen Wild-West like here.

Was that Ollie a skinny little runt?

I actually told one of many crap roofers that I wish for a hand-grenade to sort out the trades in Hull. Honestly, need a clean sweep and start again! As you know unfortunately...

My ExH moved to Hull and is having the same exact "fun". And he's a cop 😂

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